With the big win last night the Penguins have Ottawa on the brink of elimination and have afforded themselves the opportunity to get their #1 goalie back into the fold.
Many will argue that Tomas Vokoun is the hot hand and the Penguins should leave him in net. On the other side many will argue that Marc-André Fleury has experience under the pressures of Stanley Cup games and that experience will pay off in the long run. There is no arguing needed to know at 36 years old, Vokoun’s limited playoff experience has him already standing in uncharted territory. If Coach Bylsma plays his cards right, the Penguins can get Fleury back into the mix and hopefully have two good goalies down the stretch.
If you ever wanted to show your kids what good sportsmanship is, watch Fleury. He has temporarily lost his job to Vokoun yet you see him high five Vokoun every chance he gets. Team first. He stands and cheers, you can tell by his face all he wants is for his team to win, no matter how they do it. This guy is all heart, all Pittsburgh, all Penguins.
A good laugh can be had reading an ESPN Insider article by Neil Greenberg who suggests that the “Penguins should punt Fleury“. He goes on to say the Fleury has been milking his Stanley Cup win and has done nothing since. While Fleury hasn’t had the greatest success in the playoffs since then, the Penguins themselves have been decimated by injuries going into each playoff year since then. This year is the first they’ve had a semi healthy squad.
A little detective work tells you Greenberg is a Washington Capitals blogger for the Washington Post. Is he trying to sabotage the Penguins? Probably. Is it possible that watching the Capitals all the time he doesn’t understand what a starting goaltender is? Probably.
Everyone’s opinion about Fleury this playoff year has been based on the one bad game against the Islanders. Face it, the Penguins defense was a good deal responsible for the loss also, that and a bunch of crazy bounces. Does Fleury need to play better? Yes, he does. Vokoun himself fluttered a little last night, a few that rang off the post could easily have made the game a lot closer.
One thing is for sure, the Penguins do not want to be looking for goaltenders every year like Philadelphia or Washington, the time is perfect to get Marc-André Fleury back in net.
Wow. Playoffs brings out the loons. One of the best things about this blog has been the intelligent debates between commenters that almost never result in childish name calling.
Been reading here for years. Love all the insite. Disagree with you here. Playoffs is not a time to give backups playing time. Since the job is now Vokouns to lose, Fleury is essentially the backup. He can win it back if it is needed. Nothing against Fleury, but hopefully he’s not needed.
Many great goaltenders have fallen upon bad times just to make huge comebacks. Barrasso was written off by Buffalo. Roy was written off by Montreal. It will be interesting to see what happens with MAF.
You slam me for commenting under Anonymous when you yourself logged in as annonymous you pussy. Why not login and comment?
You’ve got to be kidding me. You must be writing this article based on your years of experience as an NHL GM, head coach, scout, or even equipment lackey. You probably would have sat James Neal after game 3 because he was on “such a cold streak”. Idiot.
I hear the Altoona Curve are looking for a new blogger, you should go break their roster down too.
I always love it when some hick in a state that doesn’t even have a hockey team and only gets to see NBC games thinks he knows all about hockey. I also love it when they take the time to slam every female commenter.
Why I waste my time I don’t know, but I will.
First off Kangeroot, hockey 101, Roenick and Milbury are not people you should model your life after.
Hockey 102: It is a very common practice for NHL coaches to try to squeeze in playing time for backups. They do this so the backup are ready in case of a problem. I’m just using this as an example, lets say you have an older goaltender. I’m throwing a random number out here, let’s say you have a 36 year goaltender who gets injured or starts to struggle. If the other goaltender didn’t sit for a month then he would be in game shape and ready to go. Above I was suggesting that because the Penguins had a handle on the series it would be a good time to do just that. If you read past the title, you would understand.
The idea is to be able to have both ready to go for the Boston series.
Here is what I previously wrote in our Ottawa predictions article. “The Penguins need to start Tomas Vokoun the first game Tuesday night. If Fleury comes in and flops it would crush his psyche. Think about it. Vokoun is playing great, and the team is confident in front of him. Two things could happen. You ride Vokoun to the Stanley Cup. I can live with that. Or… Vokoun has a bad day at the office and Fleury comes in and saves the day and goes back to being the #1 goaltender ”
Vokoun is playing great, he will start the Boston series no doubt. The reason I suggested getting Fleury some playing time is because in Vokoun’s 14 years in the NHL he had never ever won a playoff series before this year. Vokoun also had 3 games in a row this year when he let in 6-4-6 goals. Having a backup ready to go just in case couldn’t hurt.
Surely someone with the comprehension above the 5th grade level can understand that. If your having trouble with that, please let me know. I’m not aware if this is what say a team like, just pulling one from a hat here, the Cincinnati Cyclones would do, but it is something they do at the NHL level.
If you wrote at or above a 5th grade level, you would know when to properly use “your” and “you’re”. Maybe that’s why a real news outlet wouldn’t hire you. Where did you get your journalism degree, DeVry?
Oh, and I’m a Penguins fan (from Pittsburgh), but thanks for playing. Nice detective work, idiot.
And by the way, I didn’t slam every female commenter. There was even a female commenter that did not defend Fleury. If you read, I used simple, easy-to-understand words to praise that person for being able to read the writing on the wall. Even you could have processed the words’ meaning.
Let me ask you, how much proof do you need that someone isn’t cut out for the big lights? The lights in your basement that shine over you as you write this blog don’t quite simulate the big stage that Fleury is asked to play on in the playoffs. He has proven he can’t handle it, has Vokoun? Does Fleury keep Ottawa within one goal in Game 3? We’ll never know, but if you took a poll of NHL GMs, I think you’d find out pretty quickly what they think the answer would be.
NONE of this changes the fact that, under your direction, the Penguins would have put Fleury in goal to start game 5, an ELIMINATION game, just to “bulid his confidence”. WRONG. You don’t ease your $6M/yr headcase goaltender back into the spotlight by throwing him to the wolves in an elimination game at home (especially when your franchise history in those situations is 0-6).
You won’t see Fleury in these playoffs unless Vokoun has a major meltdown, and even then it might take two bad games from him. He’s earned it.
Of course, none of this changes the fact that you’re an adult running a site that you named “Penguin Poop” because it was just so goddamn funny when you were trying to come up with a name!!! Jesus Christ, I hope you don’t work in marketing.
kangeroor – Thank you for correcting my grammer. Your great. Fleury has taken the Penguins to two Stanley Cups. I’m pretty sure he owns most of the Penguins records in net. I think that it is great that you claim to be from Pittsburgh. I have been to, seen and played hockey long before you were even born. Yes, I have more hockey knowledge in my pinky than you and your imaginary friends have in their entire body. I have seen hot goaltenders come in like Frank Pietrangelo and rule the playoffs and go just as fast. What is Vokoun’s playoff experience?
If you don’t mind me asking, I’ve always wanted to know this about trolls, why do you bother comming to this site and making childish comments If you think it is stupid?
Delusional article.
I think MAF isn’t an elite goalie anymore, Ray needs to find him a new home..
MAF to Vancouver for Roberto Luongo
In your wet dreams skippy
Hot goaltenders Win Stanley Cups! And at 6 wins and 1 loss, that’s Hot!
Might as well put Fleury in nets. The guy couldn’t stop a beach ball wearing a 10×10 sheet of ply-wood
Didn’t you just write something that said Bylsma needs to go for the kill? I understand your idea it would be great to have Fleury get a game in just in case. It would be better to finish off the Senators tonight. Send Fleury to WBS for rehab or whatever to get ice time. As of this afternoon they’re saying Vokoun is in net tonight. Go Pens!
You are correct, going for the kill would have been the reason to not get Fleury some ice time in net.
As a lifelong Penguins fan and goaltender….I have to vehemently disagree.
As many have pointed out, the numbers don’t lie with Fleury. Even during the cup win he was mediocre, and since then he has been decidedly below average.
Vokoun gives up some rebounds, yes…..but Fleury gives up some bad ones too. Fleury’s talent is his athleticism, but it isn’t enough to make up for his poor fundamentals/positioning when it’s playoff time and people are crashing the net. Vokoun’s talent is that he doesn’t lose his mind like Fleury does.
Watch that last goal Fleury gave up. When I watched live, and saw him flail behind him with his glove to find the post before trying to set up for the shot(I’ve been there, but I’m not in the NHL…) I knew it was going in. Stick a fork in him and use the amnesty clause, he’s done.
I agree, Mike.
Up ‘til now, I’ve been a Fleury supporter. But watching him flail around in Games 2-4 of the Islander series (which was just a continuation of his play against the Flyers last year), misplaying pucks off the end boards, knocking pucks into his own net … honestly, it was like watching a (bad) pee-wee goalie. After he gave up the final goal in Game 4 on that pathetic pokecheck attempt, I turned to a friend and said, “I’m done with Fleury.” And I am.
He’s exactly what he appears to be; a very good regular-season goalie (thanks to his natural gifts) whose style and approach don’t hold up in the playoffs. Unless he makes a concerted effort to shore up his weaknesses, I think the Penguins need to look elsewhere down the road.
There is exactly NO reason to start MAF – I have said the same thing many many times over – his athletic ability has allowed him to make average plays look like highlight reel material because fundamentally he is not as sound as he should be. He chokes in big games and last years playoff performance just qualifies what he’s done so far this year. He’s a great kid with a tremendous heart and personality – just doesn’t translate to wins. Stick with TV – he’s doing quite well and looks very calm and confident – something MAF hasn’t been in the playoffs with consistency. He should be well rested, particularly if the Rangers extend the series by even another game. And our offensive output is just scary….GO PENS!
Hey Phil – you’re about as smart as Pig Girl and Buffalo Breath
Another worthless article
I agree. I like the idea that Fleury could use some playoff time, when the defense has a good chance of showing up. Granted, his play could have been better, but our defense was awful. He has a history of coming back strong after a poor showing. At 36, Vokoun could probably profit from a rest. If Fleury does well, then we’ll have two goalies with confident mindsets going into the next series.
Keep Volky in until he looks shaky and gives up a few goals … on one hand, it’s only one game and Flower comes back in … on the other hand, if Volky looks good, then it’s all good. Do not fix it if it ain’t broke!
Are you Crazy?
Does the line “It ain’t over til it’s over” ring a bell.
Win now and this like any other job is about results not being a nice guy.
I’m not even sure Fluery should be the guy next year. Lot of money spent
on a guy that folds when you need him.
Should I pile on, Phil? Damn, my torch won’t light and I can’t find my pitchfork.
Tough decision to make. Vokoun is a seasoned veteran and is playing well. I say you ride him out this series. Love Fleury and I would start him next series, after we beat the Senators tonight. : )!
Go pens go ,win the next round and send boston home .
Go pens go ,win the next round and send boston home .
I agree. I love the flower…
I agree. I love the flower…
OmG lOl hez soooooooo cute!!/$-& !
I completely disagree. Vokoun is already in the Sen’s heads. Why dismiss that edge? This isn’t mid season with 40 games left to make up lost ground. You win now or you go home. “Dance with the guy what brung ya!”
With all due respect, Phil, I couldn’t disagree more. And I’ve always defended Fleury. Until now.
Fleury’s erratic play in recent postseasons (3.15 goals against; .881 save pct since ’09) isn’t a mirage. It’s who he’s become as a goaltender. His fundamentals are still lousy after all these years, a by-product of relying too much on his extraordinary reflexes. He can’t control a rebound—or slow the pace of a game—to save his life. And, at least in the postseason, he’s become as mentally soft as pudding.
While Flower’s athleticism allows him to conceal these sins during the regular season, the playoffs are an entirely different animal. Recall, if you will, how the Penguins have looked in their own end the last couple of postseasons with Fleury in goal. A constant fire drill comes to mind. Now compare that with how the Pens have looked with Vokoun in goal. They’re been much less chaotic, much more calm and organized. That’s a direct result of Vokoun’s steadying influence.
These playoffs aren’t about making Fleury feel good or soothing his psyche. It’s about winning a Cup. At least for now, the Pens have a far better chance of achieving that goal with Vokoun between the pipes.
Rick, you and I have gone back and forth on this. The idea is simply to get Fleury a game under his belt after not playing for weeks. It’s not to hand the job back to him. Vokoun is playing better than Fleury and deserves the spot, but has never been this far in the playoffs. If he falters it would be good to have a goalie come in that hasn’t sat for a month. That’s it. I’m hoping Fleury has been spending some time with Meloche in the mean time to fix his problems.
One thing Vokoun adds that is huge is the puck movement behind the net. Why Fleury hasn’t been able to learn this is beyond me.
I see your point, Phil, but I still disagree. I think putting Fleury back in at this juncture—even if it’s just for one game—is a HUGE gamble. Yes, he may play well and regain some badly needed confidence. However, he could just as easily have another shaky outing and breathe life back into the dead-duck Senators. And that’s the last thing we need right now.
No, I say we stick with Vokoun until he no longer looks like our best option. Frankly, his game would have to slip quite a bit for that to happen …
PS—I agree … we can only hope Meloche (or someone) has been working with Fleury over the last couple of weeks.
I bought some at he airport!! ah haha PenquinPoop, tasty!
I bought some at he airport!! ah haha PenquinPoop, tasty!
In our big win streak we used both goalies. Why not use both here?
Rest Fleury for the next opponent.
Rest Fleury for the next opponent.
Forget about it, Vokoun is playing way too good right now. You never bench a hot goalie.
Forget about it, Vokoun is playing way too good right now. You never bench a hot goalie.
are u sick?keep Tomas while winning!
are u sick?keep Tomas while winning!
Not until V stops performing well. I love Flower, but he allowed some pretty weak goals in the NYI series.
Not until V stops performing well. I love Flower, but he allowed some pretty weak goals in the NYI series.
Sit the goalie who has us playing hockey and not golfing??? You are an idiot.
Sit the goalie who has us playing hockey and not golfing??? You are an idiot.
Let me get this straight……..
You want to sit Vokoun with his 1.82 GAA and .942 Save Percentage for Fleury with his 3.40 GAA and .891 Save Percentage?
Speechless.
Those are fantastic numbers!
My fear resides in the fact that Vokoun was thrown up a softball will Ottawa. He definitely hit it out of the park but… If we end up facing Boston, they are a completely different team. They will be able to exploit Vokoun’s inability to go side to side fast, like the Islanders were very close to doing. Vokoun only having 3 total playoff wins in his 14 years in the NHL before this year for the Penguins is another big, big question. Getting Fleury a game in just in case Vokoun stumbles hard against Boston would be the wise thing to do.
I’m on record saying that starting the Ottawa series with Vokoun was the only option and would be all for starting the Boston series with Vokoun also.
If Vokoun had a playoff history filled with big wins and not the one he actually owns, the above article is never gets written.
Ride the hot goalie
Ride the hot goalie
love the Flower….nicest kid ever, but a 5-1 goalie who should be 6-0 making the key saves when they matter does not sit….
love the Flower….nicest kid ever, but a 5-1 goalie who should be 6-0 making the key saves when they matter does not sit….
If you think Vokoun deserves to be sat you shouldn’t be a hockey fan.
If you think Vokoun deserves to be sat you shouldn’t be a hockey fan.
He didn’t say that he deserves to be sat. All he is saying that it’s better to have 2 goalies ready to go intead of just one. That’s what we did in 92 and got a cup for it.
This isn’t about making sure someone’s feelings dont get hurt. It’s about putting your team in the best position to win. And right now, Vokoun puts them in that position more than Fleury.
This isn’t about making sure someone’s feelings dont get hurt. It’s about putting your team in the best position to win. And right now, Vokoun puts them in that position more than Fleury.
They need to get him back in the net . He got benched for the whole teams melt down . I SAY PUT FLOWER BACK IN NET!!! The thing is the team agrees !!
They need to get him back in the net . He got benched for the whole teams melt down . I SAY PUT FLOWER BACK IN NET!!! The thing is the team agrees !!
Oh really Annette? The team agrees? You must have asked them at dinner last night. With all your insider access you should totes start a sports blog where you vote for who the cutest goalie is!! I would Ssoooooooo vote for Flower, because I too watch the games to see all the cute guys!! Who cares if they win when it’s such a great experience just to go to the games, am I right???
I love Fleury but you ride Vokoun as long as he is playing good.
I love Fleury but you ride Vokoun as long as he is playing good.
I agree!!!
I agree!!!
Hey Mandy, you should totes head over to Annette’s new blog, hotgoalie.com. Fleury starts over there EVERY night 😉
I love the Flower, and I miss him in the net.
I love the Flower, and I miss him in the net.
Me too! He should start the next series. Remember Vokoun is our back-up goalie. He’s awesome, but Fleury got us to the playoffs in style and he’s a better goalie. When Crosby or Malkin has a bad night, we don’t bench him. He earned a chance to play. Fleury is too old (lol) or worn out he’s a product of sports superstition and paranoia. We are lucky to have Vokoun to back him up.
You must have signed in under “anonymous” because even you knew how stupid and ill-informed this comment is. What is it that you look at when you watch a game? Do you just sit there and wait for the big red light go off, or do you actually watch what’s going on?
You miss wasting 3 years of cup contention because Fleury acts like a total ass in net? Call Sid Crosby, Malkin et al and ask them if they would like those 3 years in their prime back.
NOOOOOOOOOOOO! For the love of all that is good, no!
NOOOOOOOOOOOO! For the love of all that is good, no!
Finally, an intelligent response to this trash article. What is it called when an entire article is actually the troll?
Flower is a class act, but no way in hell he should see the ice again unless Vokoun has a meltdown
Flower is a class act, but no way in hell he should see the ice again unless Vokoun has a meltdown
Love the comments about Fleury. He is class act for sure!!
Love the comments about Fleury. He is class act for sure!!
Why are all the Fleury supporters on here female? Do you think we should start whoever is cuter? OmG who will we pick!!!?!?!? Lulz