Trading Fleury at this Point Would be Extremely Stupid

1. Hey Phil, Rick, Jim,

   Couple of thoughts,

   I was talking with Rick the other day down the gym and mentioned that although I really didn’t want to start thinking about next season yet, I still wanted to kick back and enjoy, apparently time is marching on. To that end, I told him that I may be swinging over to his side of the argument about possibly trading Fleury, most especially if Fleury does wants out.

   I am not going to trash talk eitherof these two goalies, the kid in me would still prefer to see MAF retire a Pen and everything I have seen so far from Murray tells me he is the real deal, maybe not Dryden or Roy real deal but the real enough to be a star in his own right.

   However, If the Pens don’t dish him now (or aren’t in negotiations) I may flip back to the other side of the argument. Anaheim dealt Anderson to Toronto and there is talk of TB looking deal Bishop (and he just might be the G that even teams with a good starting G may want to trade for). So, the longer the Pens wait to deal, the smaller the market will get for trading him, and the lower the return. Since I do think MAF is more than a quality G I would want the Pens to get maximum in return for giving him up.

   So, what would I consider maximum return? Well, with the looming expansion, I am thinking draft picks, a potential back up (as I have mention somewhere before, although I think JZ more than a capable back up for MAF, I would certainly want a little better of a back up right now for MM. Yes Jim, I agree that TJ certainly has the pedigree to form a great tandem down the line, but I would like to see him over a longer stretch in WBS before pinning that label on him. Murray was the work horse for the baby Pens a couple of years back as well as the start of this season, before being called up. Jarry really didn’t see that much action yet down there. So I would like to see him get a little more seasoning.

   What I would do then is use the money between the slight Cap increase and moving MAF to make sure I resign Schultz, try and resign Lovejoy to a resonable contract, and go after Mikkel Boedker. He is making $3.75. I wouldn’t over-pay for him, but since he really hasn’t put up huge numbers, the Pens might be able to sign him for a little less than some other teams would since the Pens should be considered in the top 3 or 4 as contenders next season and all indications are that Sullivan is a great coach to play for.

   He is also a speed merchant which would definitely match Sullivan’s style of play and he is a LW. The Pens are pretty deep on RW, but not so much on the left side. With Kunitz getting up there in age, Boedker may provide a bump they need.

   Sheary certainly earned a spot for next year, maybe even with a lot of shifts on Crosby’s line, and Rust who can play either wing also has earned quality ice time next season, but may be needed for some RW duty with Sprong being out until sometime in Jan or Feb. (No Bennett is not even a stop-gap measure on RW. He does not suit Sullivans style of hockey even if he could stay healthy for more than half a season). And although Wilson was the first of the kids to start finding the range during the regular season last year, he didn’t play all that long before being hurt. So there could be a spot that Boedker could fill.

   Of course if the Pens can’t sign Lovejoy to a reasonable contract then they may need to look for a D man and I haven’t really as of yet look to see who may be available. Even if the Pens do sign Lovejoy, there may be a need here too, they are a little undersized and take a lot of punishment, so 8 or 9 D-men may be required to get through the season.

   Other thoughts I have had;

   Try and get a contract extension on Bonino, a three headed hydra showed more benefit this play-off run than did the two-headed monster of the last couple of seasons.

   And make an offer to Cullen. Although going out on top certainly has its appeal, Cullen showed he still had the legs last year for at least 4th line duty and he does provide the type of leadership young kids like Sheary, Kunhackl, Rust, Wilson, and eventually Sprong all could benefit from.

   So if you have to trade Fleury, that is where my current thinking leads me.

   1. Hey Coach,
      Good thoughts as always. I must admit that you are not the only one who is reconsidering his position on MAF. An article in the Calgary paper yesterday indicated that the Flames will not pay JR’s asking price of the 6 th pick in the upcoming draft for MAF. Apparently they offered a 35 th pick and a role player or an another second pick in 2017 in lieu of the player. So Calgary is now talking to Tampa Bay about Brent Bishop.Tampa has real issues too !
      Is two second picks enough for MAF ? I do not think so in my opinion.
      So if you do not get a decent return for MAF, I would indeed keep him to start the 2016 season and pray for an injury to another teams Goalie and try to get a better return then. Yes there is a certain amount of risk in this strategy, but unless they package Beau Bennett, a couple of others in with MAF, nobody will give up a first round pick ?
      So we both may be changing our positions on this matter.
      Great discussion.Many moving parts indeed.
      Cheers,

2. Hey Phil and Rick
   Mario last night was awarded The Order of Hockey in Canada in Halifax. It would almost rival the NHL Hockey Hall of Fame in prestige because it allows for all contributors to the game of Hockey in Canada to qualify.Not just NHL participants. To be more specific it is an elite association of the best that Canada has to offer in the game of hockey. To call it honor does not due it justice. So I say to Mario congratulations on a well deserved acolade.
   David Branch who is the President of the CHL which oversees all 3 Major Junior Hockey in Canada was also a receipent last night.He has over 40 years in Hockey.
   So for Mario it was his entire career as a player and an owner and an ambassador to the game that won him this incredible honor.
   To the fans of Pittsburgh thank you for giving
   Mario the opportunity to become the man he is to day.Without you thus would never have happened.
   Cheers.

3. Hi Phil,

   Great, Well timed article!

   A pet peeve of mine right now is the number of people I have had the displeasure of listening too, or reading comments from, who bum-rap either MAF or Murray. As you state, give it a rest and enjoy being the reigning champs rather than whining and crying over having two starting goalies on one roster.

   Although I am one of many people out there who sees something of Ken Dryden in Murray, let’s face it MAF has consistently been the teams MVP over the past several seasons and as I wrote somewhere very recently, Murray doesn’t get the chance to shine if not for the herculean effort of MAF to keep the team competitive until Sullivan took over the reins. MAF has one of the most lethal poke checks in the game as a goalie and is very athletic. Most importantly, the salary cap hit you mention, that so many people are worried about is really not that bad. MAF is extremely under-paid for what he brings to the team. His salary was rather middle of the road for starting goalies back when he signed it.

   As for Murray, the Pens didn’t win the Cup despite Murray as some people have bemoan of the 22 yr old and although he may not have been the main reason the team won the Cup, no one was. This Cup victory was so, so special because it truly was a team effort. A solid argument could be made for 4 or 5 players as the Conn Smythe winner, including Murray. Murray did let in a couple of goals that half empty glass people could argue were soft but he made some unreal saves as well and only lost one game that he had the lead in. Furthermore, although the team blocked a lot of shots in front of him, Murray finished the play-offs with the third best save% among goalies that played more than a whistle stop. Only Vezina candidates Bishop and Holtby had better. In the final game he stoned at least 2-Sharks that I saw slip in behind the “D” and with time to line up their shots.

   As I said, I agree 100%, lets at least start the 2016-2017 season with both of these guys manning the pipes. The Habs even started Dryden’s second season with All Star Rogie Vachon as their insurance policy. Let’s start our title defense as strong as possible, with Fleury and Murray no worry!

   Finally, I really didn’t start thinking about it until yesterday, but your final argument that if all things remain equal and the organization does feel a need to stream line the goalie position a little, it may be more advantageous to have MAF at the time of the expansion draft. If by next summer MAF does become a luxury that the team could no longer afford, he would be a major plum for Las Vegas to pick. As I mentioned earlier, he is one of the best goalies in the league on the cheap so an expansion club could get really competitive over night. They could get a great goalie and still have a lot of cap space to grab another quality skater. Thereby allowing the Pens to keep players at other positions that really aren’t as deep.

   MAF has meant a lot to this team for so long and the kid in me would love to see him retire black-n-gold but the reality of modern hockey may prevent it. He may want to move on to where he can play ~60 games, he is still in his prime, or someone may offer the bank for him, or he may end up a Las Vegas’s pick but for today and this summer I would rather enjoy our Pens being Stanley Cup Champs, rather than bemoan having two quality starting goalies.

   1. Ha, I have heard the Ken Dryden comparison before and I’m starting to wonder if it was from a columnist or from reading the comments here. I wish I have had seen Murray get challenged more to be happy with the idea of moving Fleury. I know under Johnston’s system in the pre season he did not fare well at all.

      If the Pens are required to put up 20% of their salary like has been suggested, he could be the guy, but there are many other two goaltender teams that have goalies that could go for less. Though if Murray doesn’t have a complete breakdown I would thing Fleury is gone long before that.

      I do think the Conn Smyth voting was fixed, I just don’t know what the answer was.

      Five words:
      You mentioned Rogie Vachon. Wow.

4. Hi Phil
   Very interesting points u raise about MAF.
   In a perfect world I would want to keep him on our team for 1 more year as well, but from where I sit I remember last year when because we had no cap space we were forced to play the last 2 weeks of the season with 5 d men and we almost never made it to the playoffs.
   We could have that situation again in 2017.
   The problem is that due to the lower TV ratings in US and especially in Canada for the playoffs and the weaker Canadian dollar the new cap was reported this week to be LESS than this year. 69.5 million down from 70.4 this year.The latest media report says that NHL players association will vote next week to trigger the 5% esculation clause so the NEW CAP will be 72.8 million. That is the problem.
   With Maatta’s new 3.3 million dollar salary increase starting in September we will have CAP issues.
   Plus we have no room to handle injuries in the future. So this is why I say u trade MAF now when his value is the highest and before June 24th Entry draft so we can get a top 6 Draft pick and a player in return for MAF. Plus the needed cap space.
   Now we know how Chicago fans felt when their GM had to make tough choices after they won a Cup. So Phil I agree from my heart that u are right but my head says otherwise.
   Hockey is one tough business.
   Gr8 article. It certainly sparks passion among the group.

   1. Hi Jim,

      I haven’t had the time to stay on top of Cap discussions, however, I was under the same impression as you, the Cap was going to be a little lower this year. However, as I mentioned above, MAF is severely underpaid so that MAF and MMs salaries are rather low for what they give and getting a solid back up to replace MAF would really minimize any Cap savings trading MAF would give.

      I am sorry, but although I don’t think JZ was a bad back up for a workhorse like MAF, with MM still being really young, I would not feel that comfortable without a veteran backing him up.

      Having said that, I wouldn’t ignore any teams discussions at the draft table or elsewhere. Especially when the Pens aren’t really being forced to deal and can dictate terms a little better.

      1. Hey Coach,
         I fully understand where you,Phil and the others are coming from. Even in 2009,when we won the Cup,MAF was celebrated as the Hero, but my local hockey friends remind me that a guy named Ty Conklin was the real hero because he won the previous series to get us into the Finals. Not MAF. In the excitement of winning, often little important things get over looked.
         The one thing that sticks in my mind about 2016, is why did not Coach Sullivan play MAF more than he did ? MAF could have played earlier than he did. Tampa Bay series for sure. Washington?.. To me this question is very important.. MAF is not stupid. He knows that he is no longer the number one Goalie in Pittsburgh. With the Team being worth a lot more today than it was 2 weeks ago, Mario and Ron are not going to question Coach Sullivan. He is the real hero of 2016 and if he wants MAF, he will be there in September,but if he feels there is a better option, MAF will be gone. Plus as mentioned by Pen’s 4Ever, Tristan Jarry is projected to be a real good goalie as well. Some say better than Murray !
         Murray/Jarry…Future looks bright !!! Let the kids play.
         Great discussion, great article, that is why this site is special !!
         Cheers,

         1. Hey Jim,

            Just looked at some stuff on the expansion and trades. I knew that the the league was requiring teams to use their protections on players with no trade clauses. Well, that blows my theory on making MAF available to the draft, he has a limited no trade clause, ergo, no we have to protect him. According to the web site that I just looked at. Ostensibly MAF can refuse to be traded to 12 teams and those 12 teams rotate yearly. I guess based on how good the teams were, but I don’t know.

            So, I may have to change my stance, but not right now. I prefer to still kick back and enjoy, unless some serious rumors surface with specific names.

            1. Hey Coach
               Good point my friend.
               I may be wrong but something tells me this time next Saturday when the draft is over,our team will have a different look to it.
               Remember when Chicago had to trade Brandon Saad for the same reasons?
               Rick, Pens 4 ever and I seem to be in the minority but please understand if MAF is not traded I am sure all of us will still be very happy to be Pens fans forever.
               Let us not forget that Mario still wants to sell the team and now the Team has won it all it is much easier for him to do it. He commented last November in the press that if the Pen’s failed to make the playoffs that the team would lose money.
               I am sure MAF knows that as well.So if Mario is not around and they have new owners maybe that also affects his decision.
               We will know in a week for sure.
               Great discussion.
               Thanks Phil.

         2. Chicago had to trade a bunch of people because of salary not just Saad. I think one of the big reasons Shero got fired was Saad.

            Jarry does make the whole thing a tiny bit easier to swallow. Did he win a cup with the Oil Kings?

            1. Hi Phil,
               Jarry has won a lot of different awards in his brief career. In 2011 a Gold Medal at the Canadian Winter games.
               In 2012 and 2014 they won the WHL Championships.
               In 2013 they lost in the finals. In 2014 Jarry played 63 regular season games and all 21 WHL play off games.His GAA was 2.19 .Then they won the Memorial Cup ,which he back stopped as well.Top team in Canada and he was their Top Goalie.
               In 2013 ,he was voted Player of the Game in the CHL TOP PROSPECTS GAME.This is a big deal here in Canada.Every top player in the CHL would have been there, over age juniors as well.He was voted the Best player of the Game.
               In 2015 Jarry played 55 regular season games and 5 play off games.The Oil Kings lost in the first round of the playoffs.
               This is why Ray Shero made a move to grab him 44th in the draft.This kid has a better pedigree than Murray.
               As I said earlier, the future looks bright with Murray and Jarry but you have to let them play. You can not keep this kind of talent in the minors for 3 years.They will walk on you. I hate to say this, but when you have accomplished what Tristan Jarry has done, he does not need us, we need HIM !!
               Cheers..

               1. Phil,
                  If I may add about Jarry. He was rated 4 best goalie in his draft class.Montreal took top rated Zach Fucale first at 36 th. Rated second,was Martin Spencer,and he was taken at 63 rd by Colorado. Rated third,Eric Comrie was taken 59 th by Winnipeg . It was reported Winnipeg wanted Jarry as well.
                  Interesting enough, was that Shero moved up to 44th spot so he could draft 4th rated Tristan Jarry, taken as the second Goalie of the 2013 draft before Winnipeg could. Hockey Futures rates Matt Murray as a 7.5 out of 10,on a Talent Scale exactly the same as Jarry.
                  That is a great rating because an average player in the NHL is rated 6, stars are 7, Super stars are 8 and generational players are 9.
                  So we are indeed very fortunate to have two very well qualified young goalies playing for us now.
                  I was hard on Ray Shero,but as time goes by with all the AHL guys helping us to win the Cup and Murray and Jarry, I have to reconsider my opinions of him.
                  Thanks again Phil and everyone else who contributed.

               2. It does seem that towards the end there that Shero’s draft picks seemed to be much better than when he started. Hopefully he was correct about Jarry. It does make you wonder if Shero was jumping up to get a goalie pick if he had perhaps seen the writing on the wall for Fleury.

                  I still think the drafting caused his demise. The inability to infuse the team with cheap decent talent along with bringing in a bunch of rental players year after year took it’s toll.

                  I did a lot of thinking about it, most trade deadline rental players are not team players. These are players that for one wouldn’t sign with their respective teams. Second, they come in selfish looking to make themselves look good to get the big paycheck. These are the players Shero brought in year after year.

                  Here we are in a year where almost all the players are signed on to play here next year and what happened? They played as a team.

   2. Hmmm, I heard similar, Bettman said a couple weeks ago, I think at a Ducks game, was that the expected the cap to go up 5%. That’s about 3.45 mil. I guess we will have to wait and see. Fleury being able to say no to 12 teams will most likely take a top 10 pick out of the mix as he will not want to go to a crappy team. Though I could see him jumping at a chance to play on the Habs, and what goaltender who thinks they are being shunned and wants to prove themselves wouldn’t want to jump the McDavid/Edmonton train.

      As a French Canadian I bet Toronto is #1 on his do not fly list.

      I believe all of the newspapers in Pittsburgh mentioning Fleury being unhappy had weakened Rutherford’s bargaining chip.

      Also if the Pens don’t sign Shultz, Lovejoy & Cullen there is about 4 mil sitting there. If they can get Lovejoy for 2 mil, take it and run.

5. Thank you! I have been waiting for someone with some sense or knowledge of the game to write about this. These hack writers for the papers and news dont have a clue. Murray did not win the cup for the pens more vice versa. He was figured out in the tampa series and was never able to consistently adjust. Too much risk losing fleury.

   All the local news cares about is drama and if somehow the pens winning will be good luck for the steelers… just watch the parade coverage they all had to interview Tomlin. (Maybe the steelers take a note, furing a coach sometimes helps)

6. I like all of your points about MAF, but I would trade him now/at the draft.

   I read the cap will be between 72-73 million, that’s why GM Jim needs to trade him and even Kunitz. We need to make room under the cap
   MAF will not play second fiddle to Murray all season even if games are 50/50 or 60/40. Just he body language and facial expressions he is not happy sitting on the bench during a run to the cup.
   As a back-up Rutherford could go with Zatkoff or there could be another free agent goalie, don’t forget Jarry will be knocking on the door in the next couple of seasons.

   1. Hey P4E,

      I’m not sure where you are getting those numbers from. I have my own salary chart, I used to post it on PenguinPoop but stopped. It was to hard to keep up to date when changes were made. The only player that is making any change to the salary is Maatta who is adding 3 mil to the balance. Not signing Lovejoy, Cullen & Shultz takes down 4 mil and if the cap goes up 3-4 mil then they could look at signing Cullen, Lovejoy or Shultz. Notice the or between Lovejoy & Shultz. That is assuming they will want a raise.

      I would rather see the Penguins get an established player than draft picks for Fleury. As I stated above, I believe the Penguins have 5 years left in their Cup window with Crosby & Malkin. If you look at Rust, Sheary and the other rookies that were brought up, even they have been in the system for 6 years. Fleury will kibosh any plan to send him to a crappy team, therefore the top 10 pick, let alone the quality pick everyone is imagining won’t happen.

7. I couldn’t agree more, though it’s apparent Fleury doesn’t exactly look like he’s sold on sticking around. He didn’t allow himself to be part of the cup festivities in any great measure and seems as though he hasn’t smiled much in two months. I’m a bit disappointed by that. He seems to have allowed an unfortunate situation rob him of the joy of winning a second cup. From where I sit, he should know better.

   If they can convince him to stay that would be wonderful, but much discussion will be needed. He’s going to need to be persuaded and some sort of deal will have to be struck. He looks, to me, like a guy who’s already gone and I’m not sure how that can be overcome. I’d love to see him in a Pens sweater next year, but I’m not holding my breath.

   1. That would probably be the major flaw in keeping him around is if he wants to be moved and becomes “locker room cancer”. I think Murray could definitely be the real deal and as I told Rick Buker, I am way more comfortable when he is in net. I would just like for the Penguins to be sure.

      The Pens went through this back in the eighties when a young Michel Dion came in and backstopped the Pens to the brink of eliminating the Stanley Cup Champion Islanders who where in the middle of their 5 trips to the Stanley Cup with 4 wins in a row. The Penguins almost eliminated them in overtime. Dion was the future of the franchise. Between his regular season & playoff run, the Pens future looked very bright.

      He went on to win a total of 17 games in three seasons after that. Then was sent down to the minors. I think he played maybe 10 NHL games after that.

      I believe the quote “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” says it best.

      1. Hey Phil,

         GREAT article. I just had to respond… 🙂

         A really interesting reference to Michel Dion, my friend. Of course, “Michel My Belle” had a totally different style than Murray. More of a reflex/reaction type of goalie–like Fleury.

         As you noted, for one season Dion was terrific. After the Islanders came back to nose out the Pens in the ’82 playoffs–and avoid one of the greatest playoff upsets of all-time–Michel’s Hall-of-Fame adversary, Billy Smith, had nothing but praise for the Pens’ goalie.

         “They should stop everything right now and give him the Conn Smythe,” Smith said.

         Unfortunately, Dion never was able to duplicate his early success with the black and gold. It wasn’t all his doing–the ’82-83 and ’83-84 (Boys of Winter) Pens truly were dreadful.

         It’s hard to imagine Murray’s career following the same path. Glove-hand issues aside, he’s fundamentally sound, cool as a cucumber, and mentally tough.

         55 on Point, on an emotional level I noticed the same things about Fleury. During the on-ice postgame celebration, No. 29 wasn’t in the team photo until someone dressed in a suit coaxed him to participate. And he held the Cup for what…a nanosecond?…before passing it along to a teammate.

         Obviously, some hurt feelings there…

         Quite a contrast to Murray, who coach Mike Sullivan lauded throughout the playoffs for his mental toughness and ability to shake off bad goals.

         I know it wasn’t meant in any way as a slight to Fleury. But by stressing what he liked about Murray, could the Pens’ coach subconsciously have hinted at what he found lacking in Flower?

         Judging by the overwhelming response to your post, I’m probably squarely in the minority. But I don’t hold Murray back to placate Fleury.

         Maybe they can coexist amiably and split the goaltending duties 50/50. Easier said than done. What if one of them heats up? Sullivan’s not going to switch to adhere to a prescribed workload…or assuage someone’s ruffled feelings.

         I’ll take it a step further. If Fleury’s getting the majority of work, do you risk stunting Murray’s development? If Murray gets most of the action, will Flower pout, as he’s done recently?

         Certainly, it would be nice to have to have a Grade A replacement on hand in the event of injury. But what if both stay healthy? Do you run the risk of dividing the team into a Fleury or Murray camp?

         Heck, we’ve already seen signs of that among the fan base.

         I’m not suggesting we give Fleury away. Obviously, we’d need to get value in return should we decide to move him. But I don’t think we can stuff Murray back into a support role, either.

         Perhaps I’m guilty of jumping the gun. And maybe I’m ignoring other concerns (rule changes, expansion draft). But…hopefully for the better…I think it’s Murray’s net now.

         1. Hey Rick,

            Great points. I personally was glad when they decided to pick on Murray’s glove hand, my big problem with Murray is his lack of lateral movement, one of the slowest I’ve seen. Tampa Bay was abusing his slow side to side movement with lots of success including with wraparounds. I was extremely glad the Sharks didn’t notice that and kept going for the glove hand.

            If Stamkos was healthy that series would have been over early. Now maybe I’m wrong, but you take away the advantage Murray has over Fleury with his big size by shrinking his ridiculous amount of padding like the NHL are supposed to do, plus him being slow side to side and possibly (I didn’t see it) a poor glove hand… do you see where I’m going with this? I hope I’m wrong, but I sure would like to see if these are problems before they throw away their #1 goalie.

            Fleury’s emotional issues which may make the Pens not able to keep him are the main obstacle. I believe the Pens to only have a five year window, that and I believe that Sullivan’s all out offense and fast defense are what really made the goaltenders look great. Look at Fleury’s numbers after January 16th before the concussion, they were insane. Let the goalies fight it out on the ice see what happens.

            If the NHL does nothing about pad size, I have no problem sticking with Murray.

            Onto Dion, the Pens were bad, but not 5.33 goals against 2 wins 19 losses bad. On the good side, his massive crackup is the main reason the Pens were able to draft Lemieux. 🙂

            1. Hey Phil,

               Kinda’ makes me wish we could play Dr. Frankenstein and perform some off-season surgery. If we could somehow graft Fleury’s extraordinary athleticism and reflexes into Murray, or infuse Flower with Murray’s mental toughness, size and fundamentals, we’d have the perfect goalie.

               Kidding, of course. Well, sort of… 🙂

               Your incisive point about the size of goaltenders’ equipment is well taken. If Murray’s having difficulty covering post to post with oversized pads, what happens when you shrink ‘em?

               Another thing to consider. The intensity level in the playoffs gets ratcheted up several notches. Just my opinion. But I think Murray will be fine in the regular season when the pace slows a tad. Let’s not forget, he’s still young. And still developing.

               On the flip side, like you, Fleury’s mental/emotional state has me concerned. I thought he’d done a good job of overcoming or, at least, masking those issues the past couple of seasons. But they seemed to resurface…big time…since Sullivan elected to ride Murray after Flower’s one playoff start.

               To back up a step…Fleury’s a competitor…and only human. It’s natural, and totally understandable, that privately he’d be disappointed in not playing a larger role in the Cup triumph. I would be, too.

               What’s disconcerting…at least to me…is the extent that he let it show. I heard through two sources while the Finals were still going on that No. 29 had already requested a trade through his agent.

               My bottom line? While I know it’s a very narrow sample set, I thought Fleury’s Game 5 loss to Tampa Bay was fairly indicative of who he’s been throughout his playoff career.

               Starts out just fine. Gives up a couple of goals, neither of which were really his fault. But he reacts like they were…

               …he gets increasing shaky as the game winds down. And WHAM…he gives up the goal you just don’t want to allow at crunch time to send it to overtime.

               We all know anything can happen in OT. Like the lucky bounce that beat him in this particular game. Arguably, Fleury only allowed one bad goal. But it was a backbreaker.

               I’ve seen it time and again. Game 1 of the Philly series in ’12. Dear Lord, the whole Islander series in ’13 before he was mercifully replaced by Tomas Vokoun. His wobbly Game 7 effort against Montreal in 2010.

               Yes, Fleury performed much better in the ’14 and ’15 playoffs. And, postseason issues aside, he’s been an absolute regular-season stud for a long, long time. But I’m just not sold on the notion that he’s a Cup-caliber goalie.

               Lest we forget, it was Rob Scuderi who stepped into the vacant Pens’ net to make the game-ending stops in Game 6 of the ’09 Finals.

               Not to diminish Fleury’s considerable contributions. But if Scuds doesn’t make his heroic play? Perhaps we don’t get to a Game 7. Or win the Cup.

               PS–I forgot to mention. According to an article in the Trib, Jim Rutherford seems to agree with you… 🙂

               1. Hey Rick, Lol, Rutherford was probably just trying to up Fleury’s value with that statement!

                  As far as Murray’s mental toughness, I’m not sold on that either. I had literally banked on him cracking under the pressure in game five against the Sharks and he did. I’m also not sure that he was tested a whole lot with those two shots in the third in Cup clinching game. Letang made the same game saving play for Murray as Scuderi did in game six against Tampa Bay + the amount of shots that went behind Murray that hit the post on the other side of the net especially in the Tampa series was astounding.

                  It seemed to me he did win maybe one or two games for the team, but that was it. The rest was solid defense, blocking shots and just all around great coaching.

                  I really really really hope I’m wrong and all of these people are correct. Maybe I’m just crazy.

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