Saruman was heard to say “Something festers in the heart of Middle-Earth, something you have not seen. But the great eye has seen it.” in the J.R.R. Tolkien Lord of the Rings classic
Rumors are rumors. You can’t necessarily believe all that you hear. However, the number of rumors that started before Pascal Dupuis came through Pittsburgh and had his say in an interview have mushroomed. And although you can’t always believe rumors, where there is smoke there is or will be a fire, unless something is done about it.
Apparently “Something festers in the heart of the Pittsburgh Penguins locker room, something many may continue to bury their heads in the sand to avoid seeing.”
Many, many years ago, when dinosaurs roamed the earth, and I was young, a rather comely young lady would walk in the circles I traveled. Actually, despite be fairly attractive, she darkened the circles in which I traveled. Whenever she walked into a room, she brought in with her gloom and doom. She would immediately launch into a litany of complaints of how everyone maltreated her. In time I finally said to her, do you realize there is always one person in all of those negative scenarios. In the depths of her denial she retorted, “No way, it was Mary, Sue, Tom, and John.”. “No”, I reminded her, “You are always there. Have you ever considered trying to be more positive?”
In modern times, I have lost count of the number of times that I had to remind Technicians working under me that if 1% of the patients you work with either didn’t understand you or were non-compliant due to their personal issues, I believe you, if it is 5% of your patients, I still am willing to believe it. I will even accept 10% of the problem being the patient. However, when the numbers start to reach 15%, 20%, 25%, the problem is you.
I started saying the same thing, here, about our Penguins. I was willing to believe it Ian Cole was the problem when it was Ian Cole. I was still willing to believe Mike Sullivan over Ryan Reaves, even when the rumors came out that Reaves would never return to Pittsburgh in the free agent market, following his trade. I reiterated my concerns this off season when I heard rumors that Andrey Pedan didn’t want to play here and defected to the KHL.
I continued my concerns as Sullivan wasted Daniel Sprong. After forcibly dumping Sprong, Sullivan tried defending his poor treatment of Sprong and the kid’s banishment to the 4th line by saying that Sprong could not replace Patric Hornqvist or Phil Kessel as a top 6 Winger and that he (Sullivan) didn’t have time to (do his job) develop the talented prospect. After Sprong was dispatched, right here on these boards, I mused as to how long it would take for Sullivan to throw another player into his dog house? and who would that unfortunate player be?
We are now catching up to the present.
Very recently a fire storm started when former Penguin Dupuis related some observations he had from the Penguins’ locker room. It would seem I had an answer to my question. More importantly the answer to my question wasn’t just which one of the Penguins’ players would replace Sprong in Sullivan’s dog house, but which ones?
It turns out that Sullivan has put mega stars Evgeni Malkin and Phil Kessel in his dog house. He isn’t satisfied with tossing away one star, he needs to deplete an already shrinking talent pool by 2.
Either Sullivan didn’t read a recent article by Ryan Wilson on another web site or his ego would brook no discourse to its content, for Sullivan gives every appearance to thinking that this is his team and that he drives the bus. Sullivan appears to be laboring under the delusion that he can replace Malkin and Kessel with any and all role players on this team
Just after the 13 minute mark of the 3rd period in the Penguins’ shutout win against Carolina, Sullivan benched Kessel. Who knows why Kessel was really benched, but the party pabulum we are expected to digest is that Kessel doesn’t play Defense. Let’s not talk about the fact that Kessel is paid to play offense and when paired with Malkin and a real NHL top 6, plays great defense by tying the puck up in the offensive zone).
Wasn’t that one of Sullivan’s complaints about Sprong? Right next to Sprong wasn’t good enough to replace Kessel and Hornqvist as a top 6, even though at least one of those players always played 3rd line. Well, Sullivan, if you get rid of Kessel too, what does that say about your Sprong excuse? Are you going to try and tell us next that Kessel wasn’t going to replace Byran Rust and Hornqvist as a top 6? And once he is gone, that Malkin wasn’t going to replace Sidney Crosby, Derick Brassard, or Riley Sheahan as a top 6?
This has become a complete farce. If Sullivan isn’t the problem, then he would have not reacted the way he did after Dupuis’ comments. If you don’t have something to hide, you don’t whine about someone leaking what was said in the locker room. Dupuis wasn’t disclosing injuries or tactical information. He wasn’t revealing state secrets. And, in a contest of integrity, Sullivan you lose every time to Dupuis.
A recent article in a local paper mulled over the talent drain that all teams go through due to outside forces. Unfortunately, our Penguins not only have outside forces tearing at the talent fabric, but internal forces ripping away at the fragile balance of talent. Our Penguins may lose more talent to self-inflicted wounds.
During the Dan Bylsma era, there was a complaint among the fans that the players need discipline. That complaint had merit. However, there is a line over which discipline becomes abuse of power. A coach needs to get players on board with his schemes but he can’t be egotistical in thought and draconian in implementation. A coach has to be a leader not a boss. He has to lead players to buy into his schemes for their intrinsic value not because he is the boss.
Sheahan and Matt Cullen may be giving their all, but Sheahan’s best and at this stage of his career Cullen’s best is only fractional of Malkin’s or Kessel’s going through the motions. Some level of logic has to be shown by the coach.
There is one person at the center of a host of personal problems with the Penguins. Mike Sullivan always seems to be having problems with players. There is a revolving door in his dog house. The number of players the coach has had problems with is now growing ast what would be 1/4 of an NHL roster. A fairly solid start on a Cup contending team could be made with players Sullivan has dumped or is apparently now trying to dump. (Although rumors are only rumors, but Marc-Andre Fleury was also rumored to be on Sullivan’s dump list).
If the Penguins GM can’t figure out that the problem is the coach, a call from higher up may need to be made. players win Stanley Cups not coaches. Scotty Bowman won his Cups with an array of Hall of Fame stars to numerous to list. Pick a coach with multiple rings and you will find mega stars doting his team. Furthermore, fans do not show up to games or purchase merchandise because of a coach. Players are not only responsible for winning Stanley Cups but also for driving team value. If Penguins management doesn’t act soon, there may not be a team left. If Sullivan runs Malkin and Kessel out of town, the team will not make the playoffs and team value will plummet.
What a difference a week makes. Reading this article now(Jan 1) seems downright silly
Hey Lucky Pierre,
Welcome to these boards. This is the first time I think I have seen your name pop up.
Perhaps you are right. But there are other possibilities. It could be that the Dupuis gate got the team to realize how petty squabbles can dissolve a team. I even heard more rumors of a Kessel trade for PK Subban even as Kessel is proving his weight in gold (golden Hot Dogs?) to the Penguins.
I sure hope the team does keep coming together.
However, keep in mind that this post was a snap shot in time, and at that time the team was squabbling.
Rick,
Thanks for the welcome. I am actually an original Penguin Poop contributor who was living in exile for awhile. To even suggest that Pascal Dupuis has even a remotest of remote influence on the Penguin locker room and quality of play is beyond absurd. Besides, any sentence that starts with “I heard a rumor that….”is also of absolutely no value other than to stimulate comment posts.
Well, Welcome back then. I had to spend some time in exile in Ga for nearly 15 yrs. I had to watch Thrasher hockey which wasn’t all that bad to watch. It was better than when they left and the closest hockey was the Gwinnett Gladiators.
I wasn’t suggesting that Pascal Dupuis himself influenced the locker room, but the fire storm that follow could very well have brought down the attention of higher ups. No one likes bad press and Dupuis’ report brought bad press. Sullivan and JR both came out in the media with fairly strong reactions; reactions too strong to do anything but lend credence to what Dupuis suggested. To say it didn’t is to be disingenuous.
Furthermore, the way Sullivan came out after last years playoff loss blaming Kessel when there was tons of blame to go around, and more blame to had by Sheary and Letang, and Sullivan’s over use of them, that any and all suggestions that Sullivan wants to trade Kessel cannot be ignored.
And as I wrote in my post, it was supremely hypocritical of Sullivan to take offense to Dupuis talking to the media when he himself spoke out of school about Kessel, questioning him after that loss.
I don’t believe most rumors, particularly when they suggest Kessel for PK Subban when there are no top 6 RWs on the roster behind Kessel. However, with the track record here, I only present it to illustrate how all things are temporal and fluid.
Jack Guentzel
6 mil X 5 years. Fair.
I though it would be 6.7 million times 6-7 years. That’sjust me.
The Other Rick
Look in reality its tough to keep Kessel and Malkin together when playing
5 on 5 Hockey – both are somewhat of a liability defensively. One of the
problems with Pen’s fans everyone wants to kill there Defenseman but to
me its fairly obvious they get little or no help at all from there forwards.
Malkin is a ( -14 ) and Kessel ( -6 ) – Kessel has 6 hits for the
year – how can you play in a Hockey game and not have (1) hit per contest?
I’m guessing this more than frustrates Sullivan. If there is a disagreement I’m
guessing its in regards to being responsible defensively.
As for Sprong that ship has sailed – right or wrong he had opportunities to show
his stuff and didn’t produce.
Hey Mike,
I like Kessel, but like Rutherford said, the team seems to really do well with three lines that could be a danger at any time. If Kessel is refusing to be a team player then it may be time for a change. It sounds like Dupuis forced the Penguins & Rutherford to address the problem through the media.
It seems a little fishy to me that Sullivan who some games seems to switch lines around 50 times had never even started a shift with Sprong on Malikin’s wing. Kessel and possibly Malkin are probably behind that.
I would bet that Sullivan is trying his best, but unfortunately for him coaching millionaires is sometime harder than babysitting. Look at the Steelers & Le’veon Bell.
I wonder if the right guy came up as available for Kessel if Rutherford would make the move? It seems to me that his comments were directed 100% at Kessel.
*I agree with your Sprong assessment.
Hey Mike,
First like I said elsewhere, I am not referencing Sprong for any other reason than to submit him as evidence of a laundry list of players that Sullivan just couldn’t get along with.
As for Malkin and Kessel, Neither is going to win a Selkie trophy any time soon, but remember last year, as I noted below to Phil, Crosby only had 35 points and was a -11 last year until Sprong came up and was placed on his line. By your definition, Crosby was a defensive liability.
This year in the first 10 games Malkin had 19 points and was a +4, Kessel was a +6 with 15 points. Not only were they far from defensive liabilities, they were offensive juggernauts when deployed with the proper LW. Unfortunately, when Hagelin was traded, rather than search for a LW to complement their line, Sullivan look for players that didn’t match Hagelin’s strengths.
Although I do respect both you and Phil as well as your opinions, I remain unconvinced. I can see way too many holes in your arguments.
Sorry
Hey ToR,
Crosby was having the same issues dragging down with Sheary and constantly line shuffling. Taking Guentzel from his line. Letang being brutal bad. Sheary getting long unwarranted leash to stay there. Countless times Crosby wanted Guentzel there. Sullivan took out his way to keep them apart. His wingers did not contribute at all. Defensive liability and do not finish Crosby ‘s unbelievable passes and hard work. Weak on the puck and turn the puck over. Wingers didn’t fit nor do heavy work.
Simon and Sprong with Sid didn’t last last long. At end of day Sullivan came back to earth and realized Guentzel is better for him. That Crosby wanting him there.
We are on the same boat. I find it quite funny so that some like to blame the players that mean much to this team. Completely pumping Sullivan time after time. Regardless numbers and stats. Going to games and watching games you can interpret a lot . Getting feedback from people within the organization or even having contact with players. Eye test doesn’t lie nor deceive you eyes to believe something else.
Penguins take Kessel , Crosby, Guentzel, Malkin from this team. Dumoulin defensive underrated work too.
They will not be nothing and be contenders to go on playoff run. You can add Justin Shultz to that list too. He’s very valuable.
Malkin & Kessel have worked better Kessel & Brassard. Penguins are sacrificing their second line to jumpstart a third line where Brassard hasn’t shown nothing to give Penguins and Kessel to thriving against other team in this line.
I find it strange they everyone want to pump Sullivan and leave great stars to be blame .. Without them .. Sullivan will be nobody like John Tortorella..
I will take the argument if Malkin have better wingers and better reliable 3C to put Kessel on the third line. HBK is gone and not coming back. They experiment countless time with Brassard with Kessel through regular season postseason they have not reap the rewards to be hard against other team.
Simon, Pearson, Hornqvist are not gonna drive the play , open space and finish the play for Malkin.
Malkin and Kessel will never be Selke trophy players nor do some things like Sidney Crosby .
We can admit they can be better of not passing to much and Malkin stop being to cute with puck . Simplify his game to not play globetrotting.
They will never be defensive juggernaut.. You can ask them to hold on the puck more and cycle down low better.
Outrageous to be mad at their play. When Letang play out of control, high risk and brutal turnovers. Yet he leash longer than my thumb…
As of right Penguins needs to build foundation for two scoring lines and fix 3C to sustain better scoring lines.
Brassard’s experiment needs to be over. Brassard has been with multiple wingers and still doesn’t show nothing to help this team. Although it’s continuously line brutal shuffling and combos.
Penguins players are more important than coaches!!
It will never be another Phil’s and Geno’s . It always be Mike Sullivan’s in this league. Just like Blysma’s ,Mike Johnston ‘s , John Tortorella ‘s
Great coaches adapt, make players better/ top stars first , put everything personal aside , don’t change them, and put them in situations to win. Know that they are great and can be great on the ice.
Trading great significant one in a lifetime players and keep a short shelf life coach will not get Penguins far.
Penguins already lose Sid&Geno get young years with non evolving coaches who thought they were better not evolve and get the best of out players.
If Sullivan’s ego , favoritism and deploying is hurting Malkin’s..Sullivan needs to go. There’s similar patterns from Sidney’s last season with Malkin’s season in a nutshell.
Phil and Mike.
Hey Dee,
You and I are on the same page as you say, when it comes to who wins games.
Bowman had Cournoyer, Dryden, Lafleur, Laperierre, Lapointe, Lemaire, Frank + Pete Mahovlich, Henri Richard, Savard, Vachon, Robinson, Shutt, Langway, just to name a bunch of Hall of Famers and All Stars when the Canadiens ruled the NHL.
In Pgh he had Mario, Francis, Murphy, Stevens, Jagr, Mullen, Trottier, Tocchet, Ulf Samuelsson, and Barrasso.
In Det he had Cicerelli, Coffey, Federov, Paul Coffey, Mark Howe, Konstantinov, Lindstrom, Osgood, Primeau, Yzerman, Shananhan, Murphy, Chelios, Wendel Clark, Klima, Ulfie, and Hasek.
Babcock had Chelios, Datsyuk, Lindstrom, Shanahan, Howard, Franzan, Zetterberg, Hasek, Hossa n Det
Should he win it in Tor, then he can thank; Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander, Kadri and Kapanen.
However, I could be talked into softening my opinion of Sullivan if someone could show me more than an accidental incident of where Sullivan actually made an adjustment in a timely fashion that won a game. (It took his over 20 games this year to fix his breakouts.) His go to move is shaking up the lines. Any passenger on the bus could shake up the lines. It doesn’t take any hockey knowledge or coaching skill to randomly change lines or D pairings. Sullvian has done nothing but ride the coat tails of Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Guentzel, Murray, and MAF.
Mind you I am still well aware that no fan sits in the stands with a jersey with the name of a coach on it. No coach brings fans into the arena nor adds more than ancillary value to a team financial value. But if a coach did more than sit there and watch players win games and then simply shuffle the deck in when other teams adjust, then he is not that valuable regardless of how many times he was fortunate enough to have a cast of stars win for him.
As I have said before, it is very eye opening to consider that even during a season when he was odds on favorite to ride the Penguins to a 3-peat, Sullivan was not even nominated for the Jack Adams. The rest of hockeydom knew that Sullivan was a passenger on the bus.
But to get to your musings on why so many people are still trying to support an average at best coach who has a serious ego problem, consider this;
Many people remain in failed marriages or abusive relationships because of the fear of where they could go. They never consider that they could step up out of downward spiral they are trapped in. They point to small improvements as signs of real change. Often times they feel like they will be looked on as failures for making a mistake. Their egos also tend to exacerbate the situation refusing to acknowledge the failure.
I am sorry but 3 wins borne of herculean efforts from 1 line and goaltending does not constitute a Cup contender. However, the GM coming out and prating about the need for 3rd line scoring when there is no 2nd line scoring is just evidence of an unwillingness to acknowledge that there is a problem.
Hey TOr ,
Spot on!!!!
You hit everything I have been writing on here.
Mike Sullivan has different rift with players or put them on the doghouse that did not comeback here or they won’t fully go out and give their side of story.
Steigy said it on air during a broadcast game and Bonino was scratched. Issues with Sullivan I gotta find the game.
Either way their many red flags about Mike Sullivan that should get people attention. They are too busy going on the deep end on about Sullivan got them B2B cups. Wrong.
Hungry players, Rick Tocchet and Goaltending got them that. With leadership that gave the locker room best and consistency on the ice every game.
MaF didn’t want to leave. He stop fight and step in to be more of a class act to just move on. He knew Mike Sullivan didn’t like like him and won’t give him a chance after his concussion. He wasn’t Sully’s boy.
Mike Sullivan has not been great since 2015-2016 season. Alarming signs was there slowing in 2017 playoffs with Sheary. Benching Guentzel to the fourth line . Put Sheary with Kunitz with Crosby. It didn’t work. He realized it . Put Guentzel. Glaring issues were there last season. No adjustments and better game plans. More unaddressed issues is still here. More issues between players..Etc..
Two seasons he has not bring up significant youth players to develop up here. I won’t count Simon and ZAr because they got unwarranted minutes and hasn’t shown nothing sustain that match needs at bottom 6 on this team/
Blueger,Johnson , Angello deserves a chance.
All of them. They had better training camp and preseason season games to make a step up here.
Losing Reaves&Cole. Letang losing last playoffs were the last straw for players
Mike Sullivan didn’t deserve a Jack Awards at all.
Mike Sullivan days should be numbered. It isn’t . I don’t know why.
He gets to much credit for nothing and throw blame sneakily when spotlight is close on him. His answer to Duper’s comments were over the top and very suspect.
Mike Sullivan may win more cups than Mike Babacock in this league. Babacock seems to never put his players before him, make them greater than they can be and adjust pretty well every game. He seems more humble and mature enough to put any personal agendas aside to win games with players.
Kessel and Malkin are in the doghouse. I don’t get unwarranted jump for Simon to play top 6 minutes. He doesn’t elevates nothing and his numbers are inflated. I suspect a Sheary 2.0 situation going on .. Simon is a good bottom 6 player that very odd fit here. Good hockey iq , ok playmaking with no finish and to many passing.
I would trade him to get Charlie Coyle .
I guess. Crosby’s countless greatness. 3wins and goaltending turnaround solved this team. Nope.
Mike Sullivan’s saga isn’t over. It’s heating up. I think it hard for Malkin to really get his frustration across about Mike Sullivan… I believe soon or later he will scream at him on the bench. I feel it.
Do you like Simon with Malkin? Do you think Rutherford is protecting Sullivan to much?
2 points tonight. L G P!
Other than Ian Cole, I’m not aware of any other player that Sullivan had a problem with. He puts the most qualified people on the ice, unless the GM signs a lesser skilled player to a one way contract.
Ever single coach in the NHL has to tell players they don’t have the skill to be on his team. If you are counting AHLers that are upset they are not kept in the NHL you would have a big list as you would with any coach.
Sullivan has a record of bringing up players from the AHL that thrived in the NHL under his coaching. Players that won 2 Stanley Cups under his coaching.
Mike Sullivan has won more Stanley Cups than any other coach who is coaching in the NHL. Twice as many as the legendary Mike Babcock.
The Penguins have the best coach in the NHL right now. Getting rid of him isn’t an option.
Hey Phil,
Rumors are rumors, I understand that, however when the rumors become oppressive then you have to start taking a look at them.
I didn’t hear anything while he was here, but since MAF left Pgh, what I have heard was that he was sacrificed for Sullivan. From what you told me you actually have some better knowledge of that situation and could dispel that rumor, but even from your own pen on these boards you have complained about the MAF exit citing Sullivan chosing “his boy (Murray) and dumping MAF so I have to start with MAF.
Then there was Cole.
Then there is Ryan Reaves who from what I have heard went on record saying that Pgh would be 1 team he wouldn’t even listen to offers from when he went UFA over the summer, regardless of $$$$. Since there always was an appearance of not only respect but down right affection for Reaves from the players, the only cause I can think of that he would say that for is the coach. This belief is reinforced by the TOI or lack there of Sullivan gave to Reaves.
Also over the summer, the rumors I heard for Pedan’s departure to the KHL were a negative appraisal the kid had from watching Sullivan give shift after shift to Letang who was a turnstile night after night in the playoffs last year,from his seat in the press box.
Maybe that was untrue, but having watched the same torturous debacle of 25+ minutes handed down to the player who was single handedly giving the Capitals the series on a silver platter, I can easily believe that rumor.
(Although, I liked Bengtsson too, from what I have been given to understand is that Bengtsson’s departure was more personal, even though he was there as well.)
Then there was Sullivan’s whining about Kessel in the off-season and the rumors that Kessel was on the block.
Then there is the Sprong saga that Mike doesn’t want to hear about, so I won’t go any deeper.
Now with Kessel gone, it appears that Sullivan has Kessel in his sites again.
Add Malkin to that number as Dupuis – gate is indicating, that brings the number to 7 players, 5 of which are bona fide NHL players. Sorry Phil, where there is smoke there is fire. To call Sullivan a Martinet would be an insult to the Martinets. Sullivan appears to be, as I have said, the reincarnation of Capt Sobel, preferring to intimidate his players rather than inspire and lead them.
Maybe I am wrong, maybe if I actually was in the Penguins club house I would see things differently, but I doubt it. Sullivan’s responses to the Sprong incident (sorry Mike) and his response to Dupuis gate are very much what I would expect from an abusive person trying to hide his abuses. His excuses are lame and his whining that his dirty laundry was aired reminiscent of a control freak.
Scotty Bowman coach more Stanley Cup winning teams than Sullivan but his Hall of Famers won the Cups for him. In the same tone, Sullivan coached 2 Stanley Cup champion teams, but Generational players Crosby and Malkin as well as mega star Kessel and probably future stars Guentzel and Murray won those Cups. The protective bubble wrap of 2 Cups means nothing to me. You can’t claim to be a great piano instructor just because you were there when Mozart wrote the overture to Don Giovanni.
If Sullivan is canned, the Penguins will not have a team. Winning 3 games in a row because of 1 lines heavy lifting and stellar goaltending in the face of a Sevastapol like siege is no indication of future success. You take the wins for what they are worth, the 6 points you got and you humble try and rectify the lack of lines 2-4 and zero defense.
You start fixing your lines with line 2 and find the right LW to get Malkin and Kessel going again. You can pick up bottom 6 players anywhere.
You don’t try and create scoring on your 3rd line until you get scoring on from your second line. Any coach that does isn’t fit to coach.
Nor do you try and mask the lack of a legitimate 3rd line C by sacrificing a top 6 wing on his line.
As for youth, Sullivan hasn’t really given any kid a legitimate shot at the NHL roster since his 1st year when he brought up HIS boys that he coached in WBS up with him. The only exception was Guentzel, who did figuratively walk on water when he came up, so Sullivan had no choice but to play him. Simon was one of his WBS boys. And ZAR, well, yes he keeps him around, but he really isn’t doing much to earn his keep. Part of that may be because he is not being put in a position to succeed and part of it may be to prove Sullivan’s point that he needs veterans, he can point to ZAR and say see, kids just can’t get the job done – I need another retread.
Sorry Phil, I do appreciate what you are saying, but you are not changing my mind only reinforcing my opinion.
Speaking of the off season Kessel flak, infusing that with a discussion of hypocrisy, for Sullivan to come out in the media and try and blame Kessel for the Pens failure against the Caps in an attempt to obfuscate his over playing of Letang who personally assisted the Capitals to score over half of their goals including 3 of the 4 game winners. That was absolutely unprofessional of him. It became the height of hypocrisy when he then did a 180 and whined about Dupuis talking about the rift between him (Sullivan) and the Malkin and Kessel. Sullivan set the precedent but whined like a little kid when it came back to him. And that is just one more reason why I tend to believe any rumors about Sullivan being a Martinet on steroids.
Wow. You used Fleury and Reaves as two of your people. You complained about Reaves being in Pittsburgh the entire time he was here. You also suggested trading Fleury for his salary.
You are confusing a coach using a player where he best fits the team with a coach having a problem with a player.
Are you suggesting the Penguins should have kept with Fleury or that Sullivan should have stuck with him instead of Murray. Your argument is two sided.
You have Dupuis who has been living in Canada for the last year and no where near the locker room making comments that he believes even though he is no where near the situation. Everyone is and has been aware that Kessel doesn’t want to be on the third line and has a problem with that.
For every player you think Sullivan ruined, I can name five that Sullivan either brought up from the AHL and their careers are going great or he put great use of and resurrected their career like Trevor Daley, Justin Shultz, Ron Hainsey, Oleksiak, Wilson, Guentzel, Dumoulin, Rust, Sheary, Hagelin…. I can’t even remember them all, but these guys all got a first or second chance under Sullivan.
It’s ironic how much you gloat about Matt Murray. Do you know that it was Penguins two time Stanley Cup winning coach Mike Sullivan that gave Murray his NHL start? It was Sullivan that played him because he believed that Murray was better for the team than the number nine all time winning est goalie in the NHL.
But lets get to your real problem with Sullivan.
This is an intervention:
You love Sprong and Sullivan didn’t play Sprong because Sprong is a horrible hockey player. You can’t accept that. It is that simple.
Sprong is not a good hockey player.
He is a lazy hockey player.
He is another soft player like OsKar Sundqvist that won’t go to the net, hangs around the outside of the action and waits for the other players to do the work.
When things aren’t working Sprong blames others.
Sprong had one good game for the Ducks and you were sure to mention it.
He also had a game where he was the guy on offense for the Ducks who was a minus. I can’t even imagine what had to transpire for that to happen.
For those 3 games he got a point for the Ducks there are 6 that he didn’t score in and was a minus 4.
It is seriously time to give up that Sullivan had anything to do with why Sprong is such a horrible hockey player. Sprong is, shall and will always be his own problem.
Sprong is not coming back and Sullivan is the best coach in the NHL. It is time to move on.
Hey Phil,
I complained about Reaves coming. I didn’t think the Penguins were ever going to use him and I was right in that the Penguins never really used him. However, I noted around Christmas last year that I was very happy the Penguins got him. I did a 180 and apologized as I noticed the number of Penguins that had played all the games to that point because no one was running them anymore. I acknowledge I was wrong about the impact he made. I also then complained when he was trade.
I am Murray fan and think that the Penguins made the right choice in protecting him. I also stated right here on this site, just as I did about Reaves, that I thought it was asinine for JR to pay VEgas to take him, that if they wanted Sheary, Rust, Kuhnhackl, Dumoulin, Maatta, go right a head and take them. I may like Murray more, but I believe in MAF and liked him.
Even if I was not on record with the above that n no way alters what I have said, they are players that Sullivan sacrificed to his ego.
Where Dupuis lives in no way affects his observations during his visit to the Penguins locker room and it was absolutely hypocritical of Sullivan in the media to call out Kessel in this past off season and then complain when Dupuis called him out. (particularly when Sheary and Letang were bigger failures during the Cap series)
I am not now nor ever really was a Sprong fan. I was and still am frustrated over the preferential treatment other marginal players get when they fail and how Sprong was mis handled from day 1.
With the number of high priced and/or aging veterans on this roster who haven’t scored since the 8th grade picnic discussing Sprong lack of production, particularly since he isn’t here and they are, is rather moot.
If I have my druthers Sprong will become an annotation in the Penguins record book next year anyway. I would prefer to see some combination of Duchene or Panarin with either Podokolzn or Bjorkqvist get shots at the Penguins top 6 next year. He only represents what is wrong with Sullivan to me.
You have a right to your opinion, that Sullivan is the best Coach in the NHL, just as the peoplke who vote on the Jack Adams trophy and who have snubbed him from even a nomination have the right to their opinions.
I honestly and truly wish I shared your view, it would make life all the more simple. If I saw him do anything other than ride the bus of Crosby, Malkin, and Kessel, maybe I would start to soften my stance. Maybe if a couple of weeks could go by without some negativity pooping up in the news where his name is attached, I could be persuaded to say something nice about him.
I truly wish I could say something nice and wish him the best so long as he is the Penguins coach, but I would have removed him.
Tortellini won the Jack Adams award in 2017 even though he won only 1 playoff game. In my mind that is not a very good coach.
Bruce Boudreau has won Jack Adams and how many President’s trophies? He can keep them.
Jack Adams award is for the best coach during the regular season and has absolutely nothing to do with how a coach does in the playoffs. A useless award indeed.
The best coach is the one who wins the Cup and Sullivan has his name engraved on it more than any other current coach in the NHL right now.
Hence, Sullivan is the best coach in the NHL.
If you would like to put an asterik by it and say he is the best playoff coach in the NHL, I am perfectly fine with that.
Murray is starting tonight and the Pens signed Guentzel 5 more years 30 million.
Good evening Phil!
I would like to comment the following paragraph you prevoiusly wrote:
You have Dupuis who has been living in Canada for the last year and no where near the locker room making comments that he believes even though he is no where near the situation.
Dupuis is a color analyst for TVA Sports in Montreal. Catherine Laflamme, Letang’s wife, is hosting a show on the same network. She also travels regularly to Montreal for her clothing line project with Véronique Larosée (Flower’s wife). Dupuis and Letang each own a house in the greater Montreal area.
Do you seriously think that Dupuis and Letang don’t talk (or text) to each other?
As a color analyst, networking is a very important aspect of his job. So when Dupuis discloses information about the Pens or any other NHL team, he must check and double-check the info. In order to do so, he must talk to people who can confirm the info.
So, logic has it that Dupuis is still very close to his former teammates. This has been confirmed by a few hockey insiders in Montreal (TVA Sports, Cogeco Network and RDS to name a few).
No hard feelings, Phil, I just wanted to provide some insight. :o)
Hey Jorenz,
Interesting to hear how Dupuis works with Letang’s wife. I’m not sure that info coming from Letang’s wife is any better than how I figured he had heard about locker room stuff.
I did some back checking, because I had not read the comment that Dupuis made in the first place. It turns out that Dupuis made similar comments in an interview with the Post-Gazette all the way back on April 8th of this year.
He has also came out and clarified his comments: https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/penguins/2018/12/19/Pittsburgh-Penguins-coach-Mike-Sullivan-surprised-and-disappointed-by-Pascal-Dupuis-comments/stories/201812190165
My point is that Dupuis is not in or around the locker room so everything he hears is hearsay possible stuff he has heard from his best friend Fleury who was not happy with Sullivan reducing his playing time in favor of Murray or maybe a different player or as you said a players wife.
An interesting thing is that in the April 8th interview Dupuis has mentioned that he has been in contact with Sullivan himself.
That would make it more interesting if Sullivan told Dupuis stuff in confidence.
Hey tOR,
Is there any chance the Malkin/Kessel/Sullivan possible disagreement was Sullivan trying to see if Sprong worked on Malkin’s line and Malkin refusing to do it after Sprong’s major failure on Sid’s line? Maybe Kessel was upset about Sullivan trying to move him down a line for Sprong also. It seems to check all of the boxes. The Pens have gone 7-2-1 since the Sprong trade.
Hey Phil,
Is there a chance that the Malkin/Kessel/Sullivan rift is a due to Sprong? I am a scientist type, I view all things in terms of probabilities. Is there a chance? yes. Does the why matter? No. As I stated many times before and again here, when it is one player, laws of probability suggest that it is the player. When it is 2 players, the laws of probability still suggest that it is the player. But now that we have reach more than a 1/4 of teams worth of players, the coach needs looked and looked at hard. It doesn’t matter anymore what the reasons are. We can keep making excuses but Sullivan keeps being the man in the middle of the problems. He has to be changed or be changed out. Now with this latest rift, I would be very reticent to give him an out. The only saving grace for Sullivan may be an exit strategy. As for me, I would seriously consider asking Craig Patrick if he would serve as an interim until a full coach could be found.
Something else to consider when trying to put a probability on whether or not Sullivan wanted to try and play Sprong with Malkin and move Kessel down, There were several points that Sullivan moved Kessel to 3rd line and Hornqvist to 2nd while Sprong was here. If he was considering it, he never tried it. He kept going with the old stand-by, ignore Sprong.
As for the Sprong issue, I am over Sprong in all respects other than him being just one more facet of evidence convicting Sullivan. I have heard the discussion that Crosby didn’t want Sprong on his line and think that is a very real possibility but Sprong didn’t fail on the ice. Go back and look at Crosby’s stats from Oct – Dec last year. He was having a miserable first half of the year. He had 35 points in 39 games and was a -11. During the 8 games he played while Sprong was here he had 14 points in 8 games and was a -1. Sprong was a +2 over the same stretch. Sprong breathed life back into Crosby. Crosby may not have liked playing with Sprong because Sprong forced him to play something other than a give and go attack, but his give and go attacks were not doing so well. You can’t keep going back to the same thing over and over again. There is a truism in Martial Arts that goes “you never use the same attack more than twice in a row.
I can’t argue facts. The Penguins are 7-2-1 over there last 10 games, that is true. It is also true that they won 4 straight games in Canada and then summarily tanked for over a month.
I could make significant argument that Sullivan’s hatred of Sprong created such a pall over the locker room that the entire team was affected by his spat and now that Sprong is gone at least some of that angst is gone giving the team a slight bounce until Sullivan starts/started on his next victim. He reminds me of Cpt Sobel from Band of Brothers. Everything I see from him makes me think of how Sobel tried to court marshal Winters to try and cause fear among his men, rather than trying to get them to respect him.
Again, maybe I am wrong, but I doubt I will change my mind, ever.
Sprong going scoreless in 7 of 8 games on Crosby’s line breathed life back into Crosby. I don’t have a comeback for that.
We aren’t talking about Crosby breathing life into Sprong here, we are talking about Sprong breathing life into Crosby. What Sprong did is not important it is Crosby who was getting less than a point per game to getting almost 2 points per game that is important here. It isn’t Sprong’s +2, best on the team over the course of those games, it is Crosby having been -11 before Sprong and only -1 during that is important.
Crosby scoring more and becoming better defensively, I would say that was breathing life into Crosby.
Also I stated several times Charlie Coyle could be the best 3C to go after to swapping Brassard out with or without Simon or Zar in that deal. He’s young with a good cap friendly two year contract left at 3.2 million . Eventually go after Duchene or something else to make out him at 4C or RW with Duchene given Blueger a chance.
Dee
I would love to see Coyle in a Pen’s uniform – I would not be upset if Simon
was involved in the trade. He’s another small forward with little upside.
Mike and Dee,
wouldn’t mind seeing Coyle here rather than Brassard. Nor would I mind very much if it cost Simon. I think Simon is better than Sheary but he is very expendable. The team has lots of Simon/Sheary types littering the organizational roster.
Hello Tor,
Spot On!
I love it. Great Article and your response to my other comments.
All of sudden there’s a article Rutherford stating that Penguins are at their best with Malkin and Kessel separated.
Well… they will continue to be a shaky team with no lay out foundation for stars and slow supporting cast. Rolling on one line thats continues to pulling them out the funk with good enough goaltending..
This gonna be a lot hard season for the Penguins again. I’m sorry. I will not apologize for my hard non sugarcoating assessments and hard criticism of this team. I feel like this team is in trouble without a plan B and lost in the past.
Several teams are better than them and better cohesively rolling lines with better adjustments and game plans to play hard against every game.
Penguins are a relatively slow team with boring slow passengers cast Brassard, Johnson, Pearson, Zar , Simon, Wilson and Sheahan.
Rutherford has failed this team for two season with roster changes and Sullivan has not done nothing since he enter a perfect storm with little speed hungry young players and significant trades ..
Agree . Penguins management needs to act soon and lay down the law ..
55 ,
I happen to disagree with you . On Malkin and Kessel put on big boy pants. They are doing it every game without consistency and constantly line shuffling to get anything started.
Sheahan and Brassard are very much vanilla bland centers to help Kessel and Malkin to produce anything on the ice. Sheahan is playing LW for a reason. Brassard doesn’t fit nor want to be 3C to help this team..
Hornqvist is great. But he isn’t going drive the play and take the grunt off of Malkin’s shoulder without a speedy type player like ‘Hags’ to get to the dirty areas and drive defenders to him to give Malkin clean space on the ice.
Pearson is a good enough player .. He doesn’t fit Malkin nor Crosby’s styles of play.He good things and not a speedy winger to drive the play among other things..
Regardless, this isn’t about them about them grown up or listening to the coaching.. They are going.. Coach staff is mishandling them and don’t have a solid message and plan to deploy them to get the best out of them. Malkin and Kessel were fine until constantly line shuffling and deploying Johnson to be their defense on the ice. Etc..
Sullivan hasn’t been good since 2015-2016 season.He hasn’t master nothing to give this team the best in the league with roster given to him. It’s funny . That everyone wants to blame players/ trade them, But Sullivan doesn’t get no blame in all of this and no fair criticism that he is doing pretty bad with players..
More and more protection for Sullivan..Penguins will fall apart ..
Let’s be real here. He did the same thing to Guentzel and Crosby last season. Briefly this season too. Mike Sullivan had a chance last season to give Blueger a chance on the fourth line and Sheahan third line without Guentzel being push aside for 3C while Sheary was dragging Crosby’s line and production down..
Penguins were rolling one line last seasons and alarming signs last season. Sullivan clearly botched last season ‘s playoffs with Letang, one line rolling and badly out coached among other things.. Sullivan has a big pattern with players and deploying players..
Sullivan isn’t getting best out the players that means more to this team and put bottom 6 players on lines they do not belong every game.. Forget stats and discussion.. Rewatch games from last season and this season.. it give you a perspective of Sullivan..
Btw I love you assessment too..
Til Rutherford infused some fresh youth two way significant players, four deep rolling lines , dump passengers,coaching changes and ok good enough one to two trades to get this them better results moving foward to rolling deeper against team two. I will be give Penguins more benefit of doubt.
I can handle Rutherford to a certain extent. I still think they shouldn’t gave him a contract extension.
Players are more important than coaches in this league!!!
Where it smoke .. it’s fire ready to clear and show..
Mario Lemieux needs to step in and say something.
Thanks Dee,
Haven’t had a chance to read JRs comments yet but if he is prating about the team being better with Malkin and Kessel apart, when there is no good 3rd Center then this is nothing more than just another ridiculous excuse made to protect a failing coach!
I will read it and get back to you.
However, you and I are on the same page, the coach needs to back up and remember that if there is no team, there is no need for a coach. More importantly JR needs to understand that you can’t keep getting rid of players to appease a tyrant coach.
Hey Tor,
Absolutely,
Very stuck in the past. I wouldn’t mind Kessel on the third line . If they had a capable 3C and better wingers for Geno.
That having 3 scoring lines is bs. Rutherford and Sullivan harping on HBK line for 3 plus season. Move on. It is isn’t 2015-16 .Let Kessel & Malkin be. Brassard and Kessel don’t gel together.
We can go crazy with them having trouble at times with 5 on 5 . They were very dynamic in 2017 season with dynamic big moments in 2018 season .
They both started to sink after Hagelin trade and constant line shuffling every freaking game.
I will let Kessel and Malkin figure it out and work something out where they can be aggressive of getting back to help without deploying Johnson with them. That my opinion.
I’m starting to get worried with the audacity of Penguins vision for players..
https://theathletic.com/734176/2018/12/26/jim-rutherford-penguins-are-at-their-best-when-evgeni-malkin-phil-kessel-are-split/
Agreed Dee,
The team seems to think average players are the bees knees while constantly trying to force them onto lines with the stars.
Hey tOR,
Thumbs up!
I had written something similar regarding Malkin and Kessel and what could be construed as a rift between them and Sullivan, included in a reply to a previous post I never got back to.
I don’t think either is yet in the dog house, but their seats may be reserved in case things don’t shake out and shape up soon. Sullivan does have an ego problem, no doubt, but let’s not discount the players’ responsibility. A player doesn’t have to like the coach to go out there and play, even play better. Hell, they don’t even have to listen to him, just nod their head once in a while and feign agreement. Letang hasn’t listened to a coach since he was drafted. For that matter, I doubt Malkin has listened much either.
There’s no way to know the details of the disagreement(s). We may never find out, even if Dupuis was spot on. (I think he was close, too close for comfort for Sully’s taste.) And though I can (somewhat) understand if Malkin is frustrated, or brooding as he’s been known to do, at some point you pull up your big boy pants and do what you’re paid to do. Same for Kessel. If they want to feel sorry for themselves at home, no one cares. Don’t bring it to the ice. Then it becomes everyone’s problem and is a drag on the team — a burden a team doesn’t need, or deserve. And that’s compounded on a team that’s struggled to find its footing.
And all that goes double for Sullivan and his out-sized ego.
Everything troubling this team is in their heads. They’re all adults. It’s time to be that. One scoring line does not make a cup contender, even with better defensive play and goaltending. Even with marginally better play from the bottom six. Neither does an out of control, or over-controlling, coach. It’s time for the leadership trust of this team to lead. Otherwise, this season will end up as another one that got away, and not because of a dearth of talent, but a locker room turned day-care center.
As for Sullivan, JR has gone out of his way to mollify him. What else does he want? That father to son talk is way overdue. All media musings to the contrary, the thought that Sullivan may indeed be losing this team isn’t as far fetched as it was a year ago.
In the meanwhile, Sid and his line, and a resurgence between the pipes, will continue to drag this team along, and hold it together off the ice. Malkin and Kessel need to show up, and they and Sullivan need grow up before that pull runs out and crashes just short of the finish line.
— 55
Hey 55,
Good to hear from you!
You may be right, Malkin may not yet be in Sully’s dog house. Even Kessel may not yet be there, however, not seeing the ice from the 13 minute mark on in the 3rd period does make me think that there is some punishment there. Also, I do agree, it takes 2 to tango and Malkin and Kessel have to acknowledge some level of guilt for the rift.
Coaches don’t have to like the players that play for them and player do not have like their coach but each has a responsibility to one another and the team as a whole.
Players have to do their best to make the coaches schemes succeed whether they agree with them or not. They have to follow the schemes because the other players are following them and they have to act as a team and not like individuals pulling in their own directions.
Coaches have to make sure all players are given the tools to succeed. Often times that comes down to training the players (Sully defending his Sprong failure – I didn’t have time to develop him!). Other times that means matching player’s skills set to put all players in a position to maximize their potential and thereby maximize the team’s chance of winning. Trying to pound square pegs into round holes because of ego is a failure on the part of the coach. Putting Kessel on the 3rd line when there is no solid offensive 3rd line center is pounding a square peg into a round hole. Putting Sprong on the 4th line was pounding a square peg into a round whole. Playing Simon, Sheary, etc on Crosby’s RW is pounding a square peg into a round hole. Even as much success as he is having right now, Rust’s is a square peg up there.
The failure becomes even worse when the coach is disingenuous with excuses for his failures. This may be that which really sticks in my craw becomes. After every failure, the litany of excuses goes from least probable to completely ludicrous. It is no longer digestible.
I do agree with you, I really hope that Malkin and Kessel put aside any of their angst, for the good of the team. I am pretty sure they tried at the beginning of this year. They did start the year of like gangbusters. I don’t really hold out hope for Sullivan to grow up, though. Each time that petulant little child gets his way it appears he becomes more and more childish.
I don’t want this to be true. I want a return to 2016. But you can never go home again. The innocence of that Cup run is gone. I fear I my fears are more than reasonable.