I am pretty sure that everyone here on Penguin Poop knows my opinion of the Penguins’ Defense. I have not been that shy about expressing it. In fact I have probably been guilty of over-stating my opinions at times, to make a point. However, believe it or not, I am not one who likes to listen to people criticize anyone or anything unless at some point they offer a reasonable solution. Therefore, I do try to offer ideas to address my criticisms.
Looking at the Penguins’ situation in general and their Defense in particularly, there are many obstacles. There really isn’t all that much Salary Cap Space. According to Cap Friendly the Penguins only have $4,782,500 to be allocated to pay Unrestricted Free Agent (UFA) Carter Rowney, and Restricted Free Agents (RFA); Riley Sheahan, Dominik Simon, Bryan Rust, Tom Kuhnhackl, and Jamie Oleksiak if there is no raise in the Salary Cap. To make matters worse, there are a great deal of UFAs and RFAs in the minors, including Daniel Sprong who GM Jim Rutherford has said will be on the NHL roster next year, but Coach Mike Sullivan has remained aloof.
The point here being, barring a trade clearing a certain players $7.25 million, the Penguins’ are in no position to try and compete with the Capitals for their UFA John Carlson or any other big named Defensemen.
I really wasn’t thinking all that hard about this. Actually I really was thinking I should wait until later, maybe the beginning of July to start looking around to offer up my ideas of where the Penguins should look. (Not that Rutherford or Sullivan really care about my thoughts). However, while my active attention was focused far from hockey a thought popped into my head, spurred on by the memory of a recent tongue-in-cheek reply I made regarding that millstone $7.25 contract I alluded to above. I quipped that the Penguins should consider trying to trade that weighty contract to a team in the KHL (can they really do that?, does anyone know?). Anyhow, I decided to take a look at what some of the Defensemen over in the KHL did this past year to see if there were players the Penguins could possibly target.
Now I am not sure about if these players are under-contract over there or not and/or how the Penguins can make this work, but outside of finding a way to keep Andrey Pedan in Pittsburgh next year, I found myself 3 players that I will have to definitely look to see if I could sign to reasonable contract here in the NHL. Knowing that Sullivan prefers more offensive Defensemen I limited my search to those at the top of the KHL scoring list. For my own purposes I also set age (less than 32), +/- (+10 or better), and Height (Originally I was looking for players at least 6’-2” but settled on 6’-1”).
| Name | Country | Shoot | Hgt | Wgt | GP | G | A | Pts | +/- | PIM | PG | SG | WG |
| Larsen, Philip | Dane | R | 6′-1″ | 185 | 54 | 11 | 27 | 38 | 10 | 16 | 7 | 0 | 2 |
| Hersley, Patrik | Swede | R | 6′-3″ | 209 | 43 | 14 | 21 | 35 | 18 | 20 | 10 | 0 | 4 |
| Mozik, Vojtech | Czech | R | 6′-3″ | 201 | 55 | 9 | 21 | 30 | 14 | 46 | 3 | 0 | 2 |
Philip Larsen
Philip Larsen may not be my first choice. His size was under my original search criteria. However, after looking at his scouting reports, size, and statistics, he may be the type of player that Sullivan would give a legitimate shot, so I will start here. He has NHL experience and led the KHL in scoring for Defensemen last year. Coming up when Dallas had some good teams and as a 22yr old he had 11 points and was a +11, with an even strength CORSI of 51.0% in 55 games. Then Dallas started to decline and Larsen moved on to some bad teams in Edmonton and Vancouver. Last year in the KHL he had 11 goals, 38 points and was a +10, in 54 games. His scouting report says that he has good speed and technical skills as well as very good hockey sense. The report I read also suggests that he is a smart player who sees openings that many other players aren’t able to see and that although his offensive skills are his forte, he is solid in his own zone.
His last NHL contract was for $1.025million Perhaps, if there is a way, the Penguins could bump that number up a bit to lure him back to the NHL, even if it is on a 1 yr contract to prove himself over here and then go for the big money.
Patrik Hersley
Patric Hersley is the oldest of the 3 Defensemen at of which I would focus, but perhaps the one I would go after first if I were the coach. Hersley is listed as 6’-3”and 209lbs. Last year he scored 14 goals had 35 points and was +18 in only 43 games. He was drafted by the Los Angeles Kings in 2005 but hasn’t played in the NHL. Hersley’s scouting report says that he is a sound 2-way player with a cannon shot from the point, handles the puck well, reliable in his own end, has good hockey sense, and can play a physical game at times.
Vojtech Mozik
Vojtech Mozik is the youngest of the 3 Defensemen at 25 years of age. Like Hersley he is listed as 6’-3”. His weight is listed as 201. He played 7 games in the NHL with the New Jersey Devils and 2 years in their farm system before jumping to the KHL for a 1yr deal. He is an RFA so the Penguins would have to work a deal with the Devils to get him but maybe they can unload Conor Sheary for his rights, that way they can free up $3 million in Cap room as well.
Last year, in the KHL Mozik had 9 goals, 30 points and was a +14 in 55 games. Mozik also picked up 46 PIM while playing over there.
The KHL isn’t the NHL, so who knows if these players games will translate into anything here in the NHL. However, it is hard to imagine that they could do any worse than certain players masquerading as NHL Defensemen in Penguins’ Jerseys last season. Furthermore, I would think that the chances would be slightly better that one of them would have a better season than a “bounce back” season from a player already on the Penguins’ roster.
These players aren’t the only options the Penguins may have. This was more of an exercise in thinking outside the box, to address the weakest area on the Penguins’ roster. Shoring up the Penguins’ Defense needs to be priority number 1, to get back to the Cup.
Odds and Sods
Noted head hunter Tom Wilson is now crying foul and whining to the NHL to suspend Anton Stralman for giving back to the Capitals’ goon extraordinaire a taste of his own medicine. Isn’t it funny how quickly a criminal cries foul when the shoe is on the other foot.
Sorry everyone I should’ve noted in my previous post that Sheary as a prospect and a 3rd round pick were just ideas from an armchair perspective, as it would probably take a lot more than that to pry Doughty from LA even with a trade and sign. I still believe Letang has value as a trade chip in this league, and I think a lot of teams will be expecting a rebound year from him. Another idea to get the wheels rolling on a trade and sign, may be to toss in Jarry because Quick isn’t getting any younger and Jarry is perceived to be a starter one day, and perhaps the 3rd round pick has to become a 2nd round (I wouldn’t want to give a 1st as we’ve given enough of those out in recent years), or even a 2nd and a 3rd. Just thoughts as an extension to my previous quick response that was perhaps not thought out too well?
Interesting thought,
I hadn’t really considered Drew Doughty, thinking that LA wouldn’t be willing to part with him, but I just looked his contract up; he is coming into the last year. He will be UFA at the end of the 2018-2019 season so maybe LA would be willing to deal. They may even be willing to take on Letang; the $$$s are about equal and as you pointed out, some teams may be envisioning a bounce back year. With Letang still under-contract, they may be willing to bite, especially if the Pens sweated the deal.
You have started me thinking about how he may be utilized, and now I wonder how Dumoulin would look if he had a partner like Doughty. With the way he has been flashing some offensive moves, I can’t help but think that would be an incredible pairing. With Oleksiak and Schultz that would be some serious top 4.
Quick is only 32 though, so I am not sure if they would be thinking about taking on a new #1 just yet, particularly after how Quick/Bishop bombed a couple of years ago. However, dealing Jarry elsewhere in a 3 team deal could help.
(Don’t misunderstand, I like Jarry and think he will be a strong #1 and wish the Pens would have dealt him to Ottawa rather than Gustavsson. With Gustavsson, he could play a year or 2 in WBS to hedge their bets for when Murray’s contract is up.)
I know it would require creating some more cap space to make it work, but perhaps a trade and sign of, Letang + Prospect like Sheary + 3rd round pick for Drew Doughty would be worth it? Doughty is consistently a Norris candidate and plays both stay at home defense but is great on the rush and could easily play top six wing in the NHL with his skill set if he wanted to. I think even a maxed out contract for Doughty would be worth it to the Pens for this caliber defensemen.
Hello to All!
I’m not up to speed on the free agency landscape just yet, but I’ve got to say some of the names mentioned in all the posts are interesting ideas. In fact, I’d probably like any of them. It will take some creativity on the part of the Pens brain trust to work out the details necessary to shore up the defense. I think that could be accomplished… Except…
What I don’t see – yet – is the will to shore up this defense. I say this first because of how much of what may be possible appears to be contingent on Kris Letang and his $7.35 mil. I don’t think this team has the desire to trade him, unless the local wags are barking up the wrong tree. I still get the vibe that he is seen by most as being solidly entrenched as one of the “atoms” at the core of the team. If they had sat him at any time during the past season, or in the playoffs, because he deserved it (which he did) – and called up, well, anyone – then I could see the possibility of a trade. They would have opened that door. They didn’t. That speaks volumes to me.
Second, I doubt, and perhaps the team is conscious of this, too, that he is tradeable at that price. To move him, I’m convinced they will have to eat a chunk of his salary, or throw in several others, which also will hamper getting the talent they need. Having less to work with makes a big difference in the quality you can purchase.
This is a sticky situation, and one that isn’t going to be easy to work around should it come down to putting him on the market. They will need more than the standard share of creativity, or a buy out.
The Pens D was nearly on life support in the Washington series. The refusal to try something different was, well, appalling. As a result, Pedan is all but gone (to the KHL). So is Bengtsson (to Sweden). If they don’t make either a counter offer to try to keep them here, or at least retain their rights for three years, then I don’t see Letang going anywhere. And, Tinordi is UFA and up in the air, too. I wouldn’t blame him if he left for greener pastures. He’d likely be in the line up for half the teams in the league. They apparently don’t like, or trust, any of these guys, and that leaves the cupboard quite bare on the blue line. I don’t blame any of them for high-tailing it out of town. Not having been given the slightest sniff this past season, no one here has any faith in them anyway.
Third, instead of even appearing to be addressing any of these players futures, they sign another small defenseman, Riikola, who’s 6′, 190, and curiously about the same size as Letang give or take a few pounds. This isn’t shoring up the defense, it’s doubling down on what hasn’t worked all season.
The long and short of it is, for the time being, and it is very early in the process, this team doesn’t care all that much about defense. They didn’t care all year, and the playoffs made that abundantly clear. It will require a serious change of heart in the coming weeks.
Also, I don’t think they’ll trade Kessel, unless he has truly run afoul of Sullivan (that scenario is a possibility). Sully called him out with the “not serious” remark re: his injury. This could be another soap opera going on behind the scenes, ala the Sprong-A-Thon. I think there’s something going on there, too, between JR and Sully. I don’t discount JR’s remarks re: Sprong will be part of this team next season, as a gauntlet being thrown down. Unfortunately, for the team, they don’t need any of this intrigue if they want to hoist another cup or two before Crosby and Malkin hang up their skates. Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail. I’d almost count Sprong as gone, but there still may be a few pages to turn before we know for certain.
As for Sheary, I have to respectfully disagree that he is not tradeable. I think he is. He’s an energy player who scores 15+ goals per year and gets his share of assists, too. Lots of teams could use that offensive boost, even at $3 mil. I don’t think they land anything earth shattering for him, but I think he could be moved, for example, for a younger D man with an upside. The pot may need to be sweetened with a Rowney, or a Simon, but that would be no great loss, though Sullivan appears to love Simon, or he simply plays him to teach Sprong a lesson.
There’s so much more to cover from the comments to this post. My head is swimming. Maybe I’ll think of more to say about some other things in a few days. For now, I’m as lost in the shuffle as everyone else throwing stuff at the wall in hopes something sticks. Changes are coming (or not) and I’m not unbuckling my seat belt for now.
– 55
Hey 55,
As much as I clamor for a Letang trade, like you, I am not holding my breath. I keep dreaming, but I know that is all it is, a dream. Which means, once again, next season, Murray and DeSmith or Jarry will be under-siege.
What I find interesting is that Kessel had 9 points in 12 games, that is pretty darn good for playoff numbers, and people are wondering what was wrong with him and Sully is trying to call him out, yet Letang was on the ice for just about every important goal scored against during the playoffs and Sully just kept putting him out there and has yet to really address that elephant.
It may be part of the media trying to pump up controversy by harping on Kessel and ignoring Letang while Letang is the major reason the Pens are out of the playoffs not Kessel (which I think is the most likely case). the media needs to wake up. However, if Sully really is that big of a piece of work to ignore Letang’s atrocious play and try and change the subject to Kessel, he needs reality check.
Although I try to give Sully the benefit of the doubt, reading the PG this morning Jason Mackey would seem to indicate that I am wrong and Sully does have an axe to grind. Furthermore, his article would indicate Sully and JR are at somewhat of a difference of opinion on several points.
You may be right Sheary may be tradeable but if I were a GM, I can think of very, very few scenarios where I would take that trade.
Hey 55
I feel a bit like Corporal Agarn, please forgive my delayed reaction but I was thinking about your bringing up Bengtsson and Pedan with respect to Letang;
I was thinking to myself, if I were either Bengtsson or Pedan sitting up in the press box, watching Letang screw up as often as he did with his reads and not only still keep getting dressed for games but getting the lion’s share of the ice-time while I was getting yelled at for way less blatant errors, I would be wanting to leave the team too.
I don’t blame those kids for wanting to leave. The message Sullivan sent to all the D prospects this year was you will never get a chance to play while I am coach and Letang is around. Even if he didn’t mean it or regrets it, the perception is now there, if they were watching the games
Hey Rick,
I agree about that perception being present. It’s all but painted in big letters on the side of PPG Paints Arena. You expressed it well, as to what they may have been thinking. I think you’re right. The fact that they signed elsewhere is evidence of that. It’s one thing for coaches, and GMs, to stand at the podium and mouth platitudes about a player’s value. It’s another, at 180 degrees counter, to do nothing further about it. Words are just words, usually for the edification of the working press and fans. Pedan and Bengtsson have spoken, too, loudly and clearly, but by doing something about it. No words. Just travel plans. I won’t be surprised if Tinordi buys a ticket outta town either.
There’s still time for the Pens to make either, or both, a counter offer. Tinordi, too. I doubt they will. I don’t understand it so I suppose it’s a good thing I’m not in the hockey business.
I have also been thinking about tOR’s question regarding a trade between the NHL and the KHL. There were, if I’m not mistaken, some inter-league trades between the old WHA and the NHL. If I’m recalling correctly, Steve Durbano and Dave Hanson were traded from the Red Wings to the Birmingham Bulls of the WHA in the late 70s. There may have been a few others, too. I’ve never heard of any such deal being made with foreign leagues. Perhaps that’s why players here retire from their teams in order to void their contracts, then sign overseas. It’s an interesting thought, though. A nice daydream. I’m having it right now. As an afterthought, maybe they can deal with an NHL team that may have the rights to any of those players and approach them that way (trade for their rights?). I don’t remember exactly how we got Malkin away from Magnitogorsk but obviously where there’s a will, there’s a way.
Some non-Pens business… How ’bout them Caps? I hate the thought with every fiber of my being, but they may fell Tampa. They beat the hell out of them in game six. That’s how they won. That was the deciding factor. They know that’s how you beat a team that can skate circles around you. They also know it’s their only chance. The only thing that may prevent that, other than Tampa scoring the game out of reach, is if the stripes start calling charging. I hope Tampa isn’t counting on that.
Also, congrats to the Golden Knights. It’s a stupid name but obviously a good team with an ardent fan base. I’m happy for Fleury. They can beat either Tampa, or Washington. They did so to both in the regular season. If they play the Caps physical, they (the Caps) will have no recourse. They’re dishers, not takers. Get them whining and they’ll fold.
– 55
Hey 55,
I had to look that one up. Looks like your memory is pretty good. According to Hockey Reference, Steve Durbano and Dave Hanson were loaned to Birmingham by Detroit for Vaclav Nedomansky and Tim Sheehy. I find it interesting that they used the term loan vs traded and wonder what the difference is.
It is a whole lot easier to play from in front than behind and unfortunately the Caps have been able to get the jump on their opponents, making the Pens and their other opponents have to chase them. They scored first 4 of the 6 games against the Pens and 13 of their 18 total games.
Yes. It’s a business. I get it. I don’t get why every season media is calling to trade Kessel. Info I get from close sources. I don’t get it. It’s disheartening. IMO. I understand he wasn’t that good (playing through injuries )this playoff season after long 2.5 years of hockey. He helped the team get to the playoffs and really win some games.. Media stirring it up again in articles that Sully has this rife with him. He was mostly on line with center who was ineffective nor had chemistry (brassard( injured as well with Kessel to get him going with goals.
Brassard and Kessel never worked well together. Sully kept him there . He was ok finding his game with Geno but Geno amd Hags got injured.
I don’t think Kessel should be traded maybe in 2-3 years or but I won’t do it right now. I don’t think it will hurt the rising cap space , he’s durable and he’s like the #1 or #2 winger on this team. Great third punch for the Penguins
Rutherford wants to win now. I believe Kessel should stay ..
I don’t see another winger that great with him gone nor I don’t think it’s best to go get someone like Kane unless it use with Letang’s cap hit.
I would keep him especially how some wingers on this team are just basically one trick pony who are use beyond their limitations..
I’m getting to point where I don’t like Sully ‘s personal bias ( I’m starting to dislike him more)that can hurt this team , how he use players and his relationships with some players . If Sully is the cause of good great players leaving due to his feelings then I don’t want a coach like that .
Especially if he put offense on a pedestal than defense. He won’t use players in better situations to succeed. He won’t scratch players or hold players accountable. I don’t want him.
Also I think he ran Fleury out of town.
Yes. He helped get this team back in the groove to get back to back Stanley cups. I don’t like some things he has done with players like Sheary and Cole. His line combos were questionable .. bad ..his strategies and tactics were bad without Tocchet this year during reg/ post season. No great Adjustments or committing to change things like maybe do dump and chase to win more pucks battles instead throwing puck anywhere with aggressive bad pinching..He failed Crosby.. Crosby’s line was a bad poor third line.. no consistency.. to much blinders going on.. I believe the team stop believe in Washington series with Letang among other things..
Soon or Later it will be rife with Rutherford. They are not on the same page and I believe Rutherford doesn’t like the personnel decisions. Really with Cole Situation and how Reaves was use in the lineup.. it’s seems like he didn’t want to trade them..I don’t think Sully will last.
Hey Dee,
I know that there are Kessel haters out there and that no matter how well he plays, no matter that he had a personal best season during the regular season and had back to back stunning playoff runs before this year, nor do they care that despite playing on a broken wing he still had 9 points in 12 playoff games this year, they will call for his trade.
Even if you remind them that even though Sprong has the potential to be a star in this league, he will never be that star until Sullivan actually plays him. So all trading Kessel will do is reduce the Penguins RW depth to just Hornqvist.
Yes, Kessel does represent an asset that other teams covet but the Penguins are not deep enough on wing to absorb his loss. The only way Kessel may become expendable is if the Pens go into full scale rebuild mode and want to collect a boat load of top 5 picks and suffer through 5 or 6 years of cellar dwelling.
Let’s face it, the Pens were just one Letang away from their 3peat run.
The regular season is the time for scoring, once the playoffs start, any playing near a point per game average is having a good playoff. Kessel was near a point per game. The problem the Pens faced was the number of odd man beaks Letang gave up. I hate going over old ground but he was on the ice for 10 of the 19 goals against in that Caps series. Of the other 9 goals 3 were ENG and 2 were during the PK so the other D-men did their job limiting the Caps to 4 goals. Take Letang out of that series and the Pens win in a walk away laugh er. And more than likely, without the pressure of having to come back from the holes Letang dug for the team, Kessel and Malkin do have more than a point per game series’.
During the Mario era, the Pens realized that a one dimensional Coffey was a luxury they could not afford for their 2nd Cup run and they dealt him and he was 10 times the offensive talent and at least half of the defensive liability that Letang is. He should have been traded at the trade deadline when the league showed they still were enamored of him.
Since the Pens are just a tweak away (Moving on from Letang) there is no need to trade away an elite Winger.
All they need is 2-Right Handed Defensemen and maybe a 7th man. I do like Ruhwedel as a #7 man but since Oleksiak can play R and L Defense, I would think that it would be smarter to have a Left Handed #7 with Oleksiak bouncing back and fourth.
However, I read somewhere that although Bengtsson looks like almost a sure thing to go back to Europe, that Pedan still may not be a KHL done deal, that Pedan still may don a Pens uniform next year. (I hope that isn’t just wishful thinking)
As for Sullivan, the Washington series was a serious low point in his Coaching Career, but, at this point it may be an anomaly. Like you, I don’t agree with some of his personnel decision, and although we may not have been right with our suggestions, we know what Sullivan did was wrong. However, I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he will learn from that debacle (trading Cole, not only playing Letang, and Sheary but giving them prominent roles, and refusing to play several Black Aces when it was painfully obvious that not only was Letang and Sheary under-performing but half of the team as well).
Yes.
Agree..
I will give Sully some benefi of doubt .. he lost me.. I hope better this coming season.. I have feeling he will be gone (Maybe before 2020)when he contract ended by 2020
Hey Dee,
If Sullivan can’t learn to play nice with the players, I will start hoping that he goes now. If I am JR, I would have to tell him he needs to learn how to get along with his players and that if I hear one more grumble from either a player or him about the other, he can start looking for a new job.
I have Ristolainen, Dumba and Trouba.. with your choice..
Hello
I wouldn’t mind Pens getting Trouba or Risto this summer. I like Dumba too. These players have great upside to be potentially work well with Pens D . Especially if pens work hard to have a better defensive system that allows defenseman to be more involved defensively before getting the job done offensively..
I really like Ristolainen.. well Trouba too..
I wouldn’t mind these guys . They both can logs some minutes and have good defensive side to them. RHD
I believe Rutherford will does his magic teams like Buffalo and Arizona will be in the mix. I wonder if Letang’s trade list have Buffalo on there.
I would love to retool the defense this summer and I don’t think Kessel and Hagelin should be in any trades. They are very valuable on this team . Also I would probably try to give Kunitz or Reaves cheap deals to come back with the team. Maybe both.
What knows.
I just really hope Sully stop having his ego and blinders on for players. Stop treating players differently who really willing to do anything for this team to win. inI hope he can work better with players that are willing to do whatever it takes to win on this team.
I think if they trade Sheary, Hunwick and Letang they will have enough to do things they needs to do to change the team. It’s ok to have young talent in the mix . It’s not ok to keep playing one trick pony players like Sheary that don’t bring nothing to the table. Basically not using great versatile players in the wrong way and letting go players who are blood , sweat and tears..
Sully really fail this year. He couldn’t handle adversity and his personal bias hurt this team. Him and Rutherford are not on the same page.
I foresee Malkin and Crosby playing absolutely great during their primes but Sully gotta do better and Rutherford gotta put some more great well oiled players around them.
12 million seems enough to make some go changes to me. I think Kessel should stay and I think Hagelin as well. I would give Hagelin home discount to stay after contract is up next season.
Also I will see Playoffs Grades on D, Fowards, Goalie and Coaching Staff..
Hey Dee,
Trouba and Dumba would seem to be great pick ups if the Pens could swing it, but they are both RFA so I don’t see the Pens trying to sign them short of trading for their rights. They had the opportunity to sign Athanasiou out from under Detroit last year and didn’t.
Some might think that Ristolainen could be had since Buffalo has the 1st pick and should go after Dahlin since both are RD. Therefore, Buffalo may look to deal Ristolainen but I would think that they would want a lot for him. In terms of the Penguins, I am not sure if they could package a deal. If I am Buffalo I would want a young forward to replace E Kane and possibly a veteran LD to help mentor and cover for Dahlin if he needs it, or a goalie.
I was eyeing up this potential trade before the season ended and was thinking that then Penguins G prospect Gustavsson could be the chip that could land them either Buffalo’s first pick or Ristolainen but the Pens dealt that chip for Brassard. Now, if the Pens make a play, they could possibly try and package Sprong and Maatta.
I would love for Buffalo to be so dumb as to take Sheary and Hunwick for Ristolainen but let’s face it, those chances are slim and none and slim left town. The Pens will have to dip into better players.
Hey Dee,
Sorry, I had to go do a couple of things, but to get back to your comments;
Agreed, the team needs to keep Kessel, especially with Sullivan’s history with people he doesn’t like and he doesn’t seem to like Sprong. As for Hagelin, he matches Sullivan’s mentality too well and the team is not all that blessed at LW right now so I wouldn’t think Hagelin should be moved at least right now.
With Hagelin going into his contract year, although the chances are remote, I can see a couple of scenarios that I may entertain trading him as the trade deadline nears, but part and parcel to any trade discussion of Hagelin would be the development of Simon and Militec, plus a couple other pieces (good or bad) falling into place.
However, the best and most important changes I do think revolve around removing some dead and/or dying wood. The 3 players you mentioned Hunwick, Sheary, and Letang are all way over paid and in the case of Letang and Sheary, not only over paid but over played. Had Sheary joined Hunwick in the press box and Letang at least had his minutes cut once the Pens got the lead in games, they probably would still be playing, and our dream of a Murray – Fleury show down would still be a real possibility.
I am not sure if I want to devote a full series on the Penguins playoff grades so I will just give you my grades here;
A+ for Crosby and Guentzel
A for Hornqvist
A- for Schultz
B for Malkin and Kessel (both were injured but still gave it a try – Sullivan takes the fall for not sitting them)
C+ for Dumoulin (He showed flashes and hate to fault him for not covering for the turnstile Letang’s major D faux pas’ and Murray (Murray showed some flashes and the D stunk maybe I am being too hard on him, but in his first 2 Runs he never gave up the lead in the 3rd)
C for Hagelin and Maatta (DId what they was asked but not much more)
C- for Rust, Brassard, Sheahan, Simon, and Aston-Reese
D+ for Ruhwedel (He gave his best but he really should be a 7th D man)
D for Sheay, Kuhnhack and Rowney (They added almost nothing to the team)
F for Letang and Coaching Staff.
Letang may have had 11 points and was willing to stand up to Wilson but he was on the ice for 10 of the 19 goals given up by the team, including 3 of the GWGs in the Caps series. He made horrible D reads in both series, gave up countless odd man breaks, blindly tossed pucks into dangerous areas in the D zone, and stood around in the D zone watching opponents plays develop.
The Coaching Staff (Sullivan) after building a reputation of sitting under-performing stars no matter how big and being able to make adjustments tanked ni both areas this past post-season and even more than Letang’s poor D are the biggest reason the 3-peat failed. In the end the coaches were the ones that chose to put Letang out there so often, even when it was painfully obvious to everyone he was a millstone. In the end it was the coaches and GM that dealt away their best defensive D man Cole. With injuries to Malkin, Kessel, and Brassard and the total tanking of Sheary, Rowney, and Kuhnhackl (probably because he was trying to play LW rather than RW) the coaches failed to sit these players in favor of others. Maybe none of the Black Aces would have stepped up, but at least in the case of the bottom 6 not changing them out was completely stupid. Finally, not adjusting in game to what the opponents were giving or not giving falls completely on the coaches.
Thank you .
Hello. Thank you !!
I love your honesty and really honesty on Letang where others cannot seems to just say without thinking about other feelings ..
I disagree with Hags .. I would give him B- despite his injury.. he was going .. big for Pk and Geno’s . his speed and forechecking other things was missed..
I give Hornqvist A+ with Guentzel and Crosby
I think Brassard should be a D and I agree on Dumoulin faults with Letang .. I would give Dumoulin A- with Shultz despite him being with Letang..
Määttä and Rud weren’t that bad ..well Määttä.. I understand Rud situation.. I would give them B- on certain great things they did ..Definitely B- for Määttä.. I thought Määttä-Shultz did well together.. Määttä did did some great things things defensively and offensively minus his blatant slew foot that lead to gwg for CapsI think Määttä had he faults when he got abused and at times paring with Letang.. I never understood that..
Hey Dee,
Over the last couple of days, replaying the post-season in my mind, although I still give the overall D failing marks, I have thought through some things a little differently. After considering the amount of TOI Letang was given, I am a little more lenient on my opinions of Dumoulin and Maatta. I am now thinking that I have to try and separate, in my mind the fact that they had to play with king turnover. It is like being in school and getting stuck with the worst remedial student in the class for a group project (drawing Letang for your defensive pairing) It just isn’t fair to judge them on Letang’s defensive guffaws.
Hey Other Rick,
Interesting look outside of the NHL for possible budget options.
After doing a quick glance at their stats and Hockey News scouting reports, Mozik might be worth a look. He’s big, has a physical bent and plays an all-around game.
I don’t know if any of the guys we have at Wilkes-Barre/Scranton will get a look or even be re-signed. With his size, shot and aggressive style Jarred Tinordi intrigues me. He had a pretty solid season with the Baby Pens. Since he didn’t get a whiff with the Pens, I imagine he’ll be gone.
I’ve mentioned this before, but Brendan Smith of the Rangers intrigues me. Good skater, physical and he’ll drop the gloves. He fell (way) out of favor mid-season despite decent numbers and finished the year in the minors. Don’t know what went wrong on Broadway, but he’s the type of guy I’d like to get.
Alas, he’s got a fat salary ($4.325 mil cap hit). Unless the Rangers are anxious to pick up a big chunk of his contract, he wouldn’t appear to be a legit option.
Rick
Hey Rick,
I was really hoping to see Pedan or Tinordi get a chance to play a bit in Pgh last year, but Sullivan never even called them up until the playoffs as Black Aces. He seemed almost obstinate in his disdain for the bigger D-men in the system, sitting then selling off Cole, even when all of the evidence was incontrovertible and overwhelming that his decision was hurting the team.
With Pedan’s offensive ability I would have thought he would have given him a chance, but no such luck. Apparently his disdain for anyone over 6′-0″ with an edge – even if they had a strong offensive upside was stronger than his desire to win last year.
Hopefully, with the early tee times, he has learned from the exit.
I remember last year you brought up Brendan Smith’s name when the Pens were looking to deal for Hainsey. He is a decent Defensemen but the Rangers over-paid when they signed him to a new contract. I really don’t think he is worth $4.325 mil. but then again I think pretty much all the UFA D-men last off-season got contracts well in excess of their abilities.
(Schultz’ was RFA and though I thought Dumoulin was over-paid when he signed – He was FRA too. Mind you, I still don’t think Dumoulin earned it during the regular season. However, his second strong playoffs with flashes of Offense as if he was trying to channel Bobby Orr, I would expect that next year and with a more responsible partner, he will be showing that he deserved it this coming season.)
Unless the Pens could shed one of their other $5+ mil “D” contracts as well as Hunwick’s $2+ mil, I doubt that they could take on Smith’s $4.325 contract. Even if they did, as I wrote above I would hope that Sullivan learned his lesson from last season and would actually use him.
Getting back to Pedan and Tinordi, I would still love to see if the Penguins could find a way to keep Pedan in the US and resign Tinordi.
But my real concern is for the Penguins Right “D”, with Oleksiak, Dumoulin, and Maatta so players like Smith as you suggested, or Larsen, Hersley, and Mozik as I mentioned above are more important. I have do not share the Pundits faith in a bounce back season for Letang. He already bounced back. He has always been a great offensive force and showed this again. He also has always played with an edge and did so again. However, he has always been in-effective in his own zone and in high risk plays in the offensive zone causing odd man breaks and he was that way again this past season.
If the Pens were a team on the outside looking in to the playoffs, or struggling to find offense, then gambling on Letang would make sense. But with the main reason for their early bounce being poor reads by “D” Letang will be a Millstone to the team.
And, although I like Ruhwedel, he is at best a 7th D man. He has performed well in a limited role and should not be counted on as a top 6.
Furthermore, from what I am reading, the Right handed D I like in WBS, Lukas Bengtsson is considering going back to Europe. He has shown a lot of upside but has struggled with medical issues.
So the team really needs to get at least 1-RD (Oleksiak could switch back in a pinch) but I would think 2 would be more in order. I would think with his speed, Larson or Faulk (mentioned below) could be a could pairing with Maatta, who is not quite as blessed with speed and a player like your Smith, or Mozik or Hersley, or could then pair with Dumoulin.
I guess I am dreaming.
The Other Rick
Quick comment about the salary cap having worked in the NBA Front Office
for the last 14yrs. There’s always cap space – I get a kick out of fans when
they say there’s no wiggle room or we’re restricted by the limited cap.
As a GM or any Front Office Personnel your paid to be creative – that goes
with the territory – I haven’t looked at the Pen’s cap numbers but a move
here “Letang” or a move there “Sheary” and you just freed up roughly
10mil.
I don’t have the luxury of being around the Pen’s team on a daily basis but
its the job of management to know when to move a player and the numbers
can dictate that to a point.
in my opinion the Pens have several players to cut ties with – Letang, Sheary,
Simon, Hunwick, Ruhwedel and Rowney and if I’m really pushed Kuhnhacki.
Rowney, Simon and Ruhwedel should be at best Wilkes Barre bound or used to
complete a trade that includes Letang / Sheary.
if JR makes good tactical decisions the cap will never be an issue – Example – lose
Letang and you can parlay that into (2) quality defenseman. Bottom line there’s always a way to make it work – I’m sure JR is a step ahead.
I will take a closer look at the availability of FA – the Draft and possible trades
while factoring in the numbers at a later date.
ps – Forgot to add Tristan Jarry – possible trade candidate.
Hey Mike,
I would like to think that GMs and front office personnel are creative and in the case of JR he has shown that he can work some magic. Unfortunately, as much as I would love to move Letang and Sheary, I can’t picture too many teams willing to bite.
I probably should put Hunwick in there with them.
Maybe Letang and Sheary would be trade able if their contracts weren’t so ridiculously out of proportion to what they bring to the table. Buyouts may be the only option for these players.
I am not all that tied to Tristan Jarry, but with the Penguins sacrificing Gustavsson in the Brassard deal, I really would hesitate in trading Jarry until I saw how D’Orio is developing and/or I could find a better back up.
I was hoping that the Pens would not trade any of their Goalies until draft day and then try and trade up maybe even get Dahlin. If I couldn’t get Dahlin, I would have rather lost Jarry or DeSmith than Gustavsson.
If the team is able to dump Letang’s, Sheary’s, and Hunwick’s salaries and then admits that Rowney has run his course, they would not only have enough for a couple of solid D men but enough left over to try and lure Reaves back.
The real problem here though, is finding players that Sullivan will play. Cole was a very serviceable defensemen but he was run out of town and Reaves showed his value to the team too, but his ice time was doled out with an eyedropper.
The Other Rick
The Cole situation is a “Head scratcher” for sure – After reading
JR’s quote about Sprong being a regular next year I can’t help
but read between the lines and think JR is not happy with the
Cole / Sullivan situation. I get the feeling he’s upset that he was
backed into a corner and had to move Cole.
I believe it was Sullivans doing that Sprong never made it back
from Wilkes Barre. I also believe JR was sending a message.
“Just my gut feeling”
Hey Mike, don’t read too much into what Rutherford said about Sprong. Rutherford signed Sprong to a one way contract next season, meaning Sprong can’t be sent down without clearing waivers. So the options are play him, trade him or give him away on waivers.
Phil
Good point – I still think JR is smarting about the
Cole / Sullivan situation – that move alone cost the
Pens any chance of a 3-peat.
Cole gave the Pens a solid stay home “D”Man and
a physical presence that was sorely missed in the
playoffs.
Not to mention he was forced to add Reaves to complete
the trade. Talk about a double “bitch” slap. With the
make-up of the Pen’s roster they couldn’t afford to lose
these two players.
Hopefully JR figures out a way to either sign Reaves back
on the cheap or find his clone.
Hey Phil,
Question, where are you looking to find Sprong has to clear waivers? I was looking on Capfriendly and they only list him as being on the entry level contract he signed 8/28/15 and ending on this year making him RFA. There is no new contract listed. According to Capfriendly he is still RFA. So, JR hasn’t signed him to a one way contract yet from what I read.
Although, chances are that Sprong will look for a one way contract it looks like all of this is still just talk.
Mind you I am not saying that I think they should trade him but if they do decide to trade him, I would hope they trade him before Camp. I would think that it would be better to get that out of the way and what ever new piece(s) in before players report.
Hey tOR,
My fault on that. Let’s just say that Sprong is no longer waiver exempt next season so he will definitely have to play on the team, be traded or (won’t happen) given away on waivers if he just happens to sign a 2 year one way contract for around $950,000 per season.
A little bit Interesting is what you can learn about Sprong just by the date he will sign his RFA. Before or after July 1st.
No worries Phil,
Sometimes people here on Penguin Poop are ahead of the news. I just thought you may have had a scoop.
I hadn’t thought that far ahead but yes it will be interesting to see when the deal gets done.
Hey Mike,
I understand where Phil is coming from when he cautions not to read to much into what JR said, after all JR gave Pouliot a one way contract last year only to trade him. He also gave Rowney and Ruhwedel one way contracts which limited some of the options once the season started. I can’t help but wonder if Rowney could have been sent down, would Dea or Blueger have been given a chance to play?
However, like you I tend to think that JR isn’t that stupid. I tend to think that JR is very much aware of what I mentioned earlier, during the season when I wrote that if the Cole issue was an isolated one and probably just Cole, but when a similar thing starts happening to Sprong, then the GM needs to start looking at the Coach and reminding the Coach that the more players he ends up having problems with the greater the probability that the Coach is the problem.
Maybe in the end, JR is just posturing, but posturing to make a point to Sullivan. He may be reminding Sullivan that it could be easier to replace 1 Coach than 20 players, so the Coach may need to learn to play nice with his players.
I am not trying to defend Sprong. I have heard from 2 different sources that Sprong may be immature (Although, it could be just a question of cultural insensitivity on certain peoples parts not understanding what a Dutch kid finds to be normal).
However, even though probability still suggests it may be Sprong at fault, it never hurts to remind people (Coaches) of basics management – employee tenets. This may be more important in higher profile positions where press clipping could start to cloud judgement.
Hey Mike,
Yesterday I was less than optimistic about the chances of the Penguins being able to unload Letang and Sheary but this morning I was reading the NHL web site and ran across an article about the Hurricanes and their GM apparently willing to have a fire sale since they have been in the playoffs since the 8th grade picnic. Among the names they were tossing around as fair game are Justin Faulk and Jeff Skinner. ($4,833,333 + $5,725,000 cap hits respectively or $10,558,333 total)
So, my questions to you and everyone (don’t be shy – jump in);
1. Do you think JR can dress up Letang and Sheary ($,720,000 + $3,000,000 cap hits respectively or $10,250,000 total) as viable candidates for a flip, arguing that they have hoisted the Cup and would bring that leadership needed to get to the promised land?
2. Both Skinner and Faulk are solid offensively; Skinner avg 29 goals and 54 points and Faulk avg 13 goals and 38 points per 82 games. Defensively they haven’t been all of that, Skinner is a career -95 and Faulk a career -109. However, how much of those numbers are from playing on really bad teams, their Corsi numbers are rather good 52.1 and 52.3 respectively. Would bringing them to Pittsburgh cause them to Blossom in all parts of their game? Would they represent a true upgrade?
3. If you were JR, would you try and pull the trigger on that trade?
4. Skinner only has a no movement clause, but don’t you think he would jump at the chance to come to Pgh?
Other things to consider while you ponder these questions;
1. Faulk and Skinner are both only 26. In Faulk’s case as a D-man he should only now be coming into his prime. In Skinner’s case he should already be in his prime since Fs hit their primes earlier.
2. Skinner only has 1 more year left on his contract. The good news, if he is only so – so for the Pens the team isn’t committed to him and his $5+ mil could be used elsewhere the following year. The Bad news, if he has a banner year, then the Pens may not be able to afford him (Although, they also would lose Brassard’s and Hagelin’s contracts at that time too)
The team would still need to find 1 more top 6 D-man and a depth D-man and I agree with you Mike, some money to lure Reaves back. Since the team wouldn’t have to throw away a #1 draft pick, I really did enjoy seeing so many players stay so healthy for a whole season or nearly a whole season. But if they do, please Sullivan, play him, keep rolling 4 lines, don’t sit him on the bench. Yes there may be other forwards with more scoring touch but none could come as easily as a UFA.
The Other Rick
All great points.
1) I would say Letang is valued by teams around the league a little
more than we think. The Pen’s could also eat a portion of his
salary. There’s some GM out there that visions Letang returning
to form.
2) i think you’ll agree with me Sullivan has to leave his “ego”at home.
3) Hagelin is a hard one for me – the Pen’s are a different team with him
in the lineup – He could be tough to replace.
4) Sully needs to be disciplined during the regular season and consistently
go with (4) lines. This is crucial for Crosby and Malkin as they move
further into there 30″s.
5) “PLEASE BRING REAVES BACK”
6) Skinner would score 40 goals playing along side Sid & Jake.
Perhaps you are right Mike, maybe other teams do value Letang more than I think, after all he somehow managed to get into the All Star game. Maybe Letang – Sheary for Faulk – Skinner may be a do able deal. The Pens may need to sweeten the pot a little more with say, Dominik Simon or some other young gun but it is still an interesting thought.
I do agree, Sullivan needs to think team first, particularly once the season starts rather than “my way or the highway”. He is coach and the “my way or the highway is fine in the off season, shed unwanted players and maneuver to get players that play your way then, but even still don’t throw away a solid D man for personal reasons.
I wasn’t suggesting that the Pens get rid of Hagelin, I was just noting that after next year Hagelin, Brassard, and Skinner would all be UFA so if they are all still on the team, the team could consolidate and keep the ones that make sense going from there. If Skinner is setting the world on fire, letting Brassard or Hagelin go could free up the money to keep the other. However, Guentzel and Aston-Reese are RFA and DeSmith UFA as well, so decisions may need to be made next summer.
I also agree 100% with Crosby and Malkin starting into their 30s, pacing them throughout games needs to be done to allow them to always play at their best. It is getting more and more important to roll 4 lines with every passing year.
I would think that regardless of where he would play 1st, 2nd, or 3rd line, Skinner would put up big numbers, being insulated as it were with as many top guns as the Pens have at forward. I doubt teams would have enough defensive players to cover that many players. A third line of Skinner – Kessel and whoever gets the 3rd line Center nod should find opponents rather softened up after chasing Crosby’s line and then Malkin’s line all over the ice.
The Other Rick
For all the Ryan Reaves “haters” – that failed to see
his importance to the Pens team this year.
He tips in the winning goal to secure the Golden
Knights a spot in this years Stanley Cup Finals.
I pray that JR learns a huge lesson from this and
figures out away to correct it before next season.
Hey Mike,
I hear what you are saying Mike.
However, some may say that being in the right place at the right time to tap in a GWG is luck. (Even though Sheary missed several tap ins this year – so again I hear what you are saying, right place + right time still needs Skill + Not getting rattled by the pressure)
For me the best selling point the the Pens need to look at, which will hard to be dismissed is the number of stars that played a full or near 82 Games. No sooner than the Reaves gets traded stars started dropping like flies.
Hey Other Rick,
Really interesting thought. I like both Faulk and Skinner.
Given his contract, health history and defensive struggles, it’s hard for me to imagine Letang being that coveted around the league. But maybe it’s a case of familiarity breeding contempt…or at least disappointment in his play. Maybe, as other commenters suggest, ‘Tanger’ is viewed differently by other teams.
Same with Sheary. Considering his postseason struggles, it’s hard to think Conor would hold much value. But he’s scored 41 goals over the past two seasons, and he does provide speed and energy. Again, you never know…
Rick