Penguins Sign Mike Sullivan to a Four-Year Extension

1. 4 Year Extension Rick. Has somebody got a screw loose ?
   Just one quick question? What happens come March and the Pens are 10 points out of the last Wildcard spot and you need to shake things up? Got to fire the Coach or the GM ! Both have long term contracts,,,,, Did not Disco Dan and Mighty Mike have the same thing happen to them?
   Why not just a one year extension ? Makes no sense in a purely business sense.
   If it was a Sidney Crosby. No problem….4 year extension. Not to many World Class Centers around. Hockey Coaches… I rest my case …
   4 Years……
   Thanks Rick

   1. Hey Jim,

      I’m far from a Sullivan hater, but I’m with you on this one. Extend him for another year…maybe two. But four years?

      I have my concerns. Chief among them, his inveterate line juggling, his obstinance and his unwillingness to adjust his preferred style to match his talent…a problem last season. Never mind a tendency to play favorites.

      Too, hard-driving coaches tend to wear out their welcome over time. I wonder if Sullivan will hit his expiration date long before his contract expires.

      On the flip side, people much closer to the team than I seem to regard him highly. Despite his issues with Kessel and certain personality types, he’s said to communicate well with his players. And he’s extremely intelligent, well-spoken and knowledgeable about the game. Perhaps as players develop, coaches can develop, too. Plus, given Rutherford’s recent moves, the team seems more capable of playing Sully’s up-tempo, roll-four-lines style.

      I guess time will tell if this was a wise move…

      Rick

      1. Hey Rick,

         You know my thoughts on Sullivan. I not only share your concerns, I am sure those short comings are what cause the entire team to quit on him in the playoffs this past season.

         Stealing from a different sport, I do agree, coaches can develop; when in Pgh, Jim Leyland learned his craft. He mismanaged a team loaded with stars. He then moved on and won championships. I fear a big difference between Leyland and Sullivan is their personalities. Leyland din’t chase players out of town, nor did he play favoritism. His biggest flaw was constantly trying to play the lefty-righty match up.

         I am a Penguin fan and I wish with all my heart I am wrong. I would have preferred to have been eating crow this past June and telling Phil he was a genius for sticking to his guns behind the sinking coach during a Cup parade, in Downtown Pgh this past year and the year before but I am also a realist. The current roster is a weaker version of itself compared to last year, which was weaker than the year before which in turn was weaker than the year before that. The hit against the talent level of this team has gotten larger and larger with each passing season, but the loss is not from natural erosion of age but worse, it has been self inflicted. It has been from poor trading and worse FA signing/not signing.

         Again, I hope I am wrong, and will at the drop of every puck during the coming season, be cheering what ever watered down version of a hockey team that takes the ice but between games I will bemoan the poor decisions that is bringing back the dark ages of 2001-2006

         1. Rick

            I’m with Phil on this one – a 4yr extension puts the players
            on notice that the coach is going anywhere.

            Plus theirs always clauses added into contracts that can
            allow for an out. None of us are privy to the guts of the
            deal.

            I think it’s a good move for organizational stability. Last
            thing you want to allow are the players dictating to
            management.

            Hope everyone had a great 4th.

   2. Hey Jim,

      I like the signing. One of the big problems with teams in the NHL these days are the “participation award” generation of players will undermine the coaches knowing that there is a turnstile. If players don’t like how much playing time or powerplay time they are getting they try to get the coach fired knowing that the GM’s are willing to do it.

      A one year extension shows no confidence in the coach which would undermine everything he tries to do.

      Showing that the coach is here to stay sends a great message to the players.

      1. Hi Phil
         You raise a good point my friend. I certainly do not have the history that you have with the penguins, but it seems to me that every time something gets sidetracked, the Coach is the first to go. It would be very refreshing if in some instances ownership would support their coach and trade a player like a Sidney Crosby to send a message to others. But that almost never happens. I just hope that ownership remembers this day and that this move works out for my beloved penguins! Only time will tell. If they indeed have to fire the coach this year because ownership needs to change, Many will agree with you.I really don’t think a four-year extension to his contract was warranted.
         But I certainly understand your position Phil.
         Many will agree with you.

         BTW. Who else gets traded? Rust? Jack?
         Cheers
         Jim

         1. Hey Jim,

            The timing of a 4 year contract was definitely odd with the team getting swept first round in the playoffs. I think Rutherford hastily getting rid of Laviolette after one bad season has taught him a valuable lesson about how many good coaches there are.

            If you look, it’s always the same coaches winning, they’re just switching teams. Babcock, Trotz, Tippett, Julien, Quenville and the rest of them.

            1. Phil,

               Laviolette won the Cup in Carolina in 05-06. He didn’t leave Carolina until 08-09. When he won the Cup, Carolina totaled 112 points. After that season the Carolina only topped 90 points once, 07-08. Yes he did put up good numbers in Phi in 2010-2011 and 2011-2012 but tanked the next season. In Nashville he has put up good numbers in the regular season finishing first the last 2 seasons but his playoff numbers aren’t that good, twice bounced in the 1st round and twice bounced in the 2nd round.

               JR didn’t hastily get rid of Laviolette.

               Babcock is on the hot seat after another bounce from the playoffs and it has been 10 years since his last trip to the conference finals, 2008-2009 was his last trip to those finals. He has only been to those finals 3 times.

               Dave Tippet? He has only been to the playoffs 8 times in 15 years.

               Trotz”s teams routinely choked against our Penguins. It has only been the last 2 years that Trotz could be considered a good coach, particularly this past year when he inherited almost nothing but how much of that Islander team is influenced by Trotz and how much Lamoriello.

               1. Hey tOR,

                  All of those guys except Babcock (who Canada puts in charge of their main team annually) have won the Jack Adams Award. The Award that Two Time Stanley Cup Winning Coach Mike Sullivan hasn’t won. Which also is the Award you said that not winning shows why Sullivan isn’t a good coach. I’m confused then as to what you believe makes a good coach?

                  As for me, I’m going to stick with the best coaches win Stanley Cups.

                  Still willing to bet that 20-25 GM’s in the NHL would trade their coach for Sullivan in a second even after his quick out last year.

               2. Phil,

                  Babcock has only been on 1 team that has won a Cup. The team he had boasted Chelios (3 Cups, 5-1st Team AS, 2-2nd Team AS, 3 Norris, and 1 Messier, HoF), Datsyuk (2-Cups, 1-2nd Team AS, 4-Byng, 2-Selkie), Chris Draper (4-Cups), Hasek (2-Cups, 6-1st Team AS, 2-Hart, 3-Jennings, 6-Vezina, 2-Pearson), Holmstrom (4-Cups), Hudler (1-Cup, 1-Byng), Lindstrom (4-Cups, 10-1st Team AS, 2-2nd Team AS, 7-Norris, 1-Smythe, HoF), Maltby (4-Cups), McCarty (4-Cups), Osgood (3-Cups, 2-2nd Team AS, 2-Jennings), Rafalski (3-Cups), Zetterberg ((1-Cup, 1-2nd Team AS, 1-Smythe, 1-Clancy)

                  Without that Honor Roll, Babcock has nothing. He was a Passenger on that Bus. Even with Mathews and Tavares he is failing. He needed that deep of a team of All Stars. He is now on the host seat in Toronto and many calling for his head. Should Toronto not make the Conference Finals he just may get fired.

                  Laviolette has been fired by Carolina and Phillie He only has 1-Cup. His team didn’t have as many storied players as Babcock but still boasted Recchi (3-2nd Team AS, 3-Cups, HoF), Cullen(3-Cups), Williams (3-Cups, 1-Smythe), Adams (2-Cups), Ladd (2-Cups), Aaron Ward (2-Cups), Brind’Amour (only 1-Cup but 2-Selkie)

                  Tippet no Cups

                  Trotz 1 Cup, just last year. I probably don’t need to talk about the hardware of the players on that team.

                  Few Coaches win Cups, most are passengers. I’ll tell you what, you take any Coach you want first and I get to pick all my from the top 100 players 1st. Then I pick a coach from the middle 10 coaches that you didn’t take. Then you pick your team from the second 100 Players in the league and we will see which team wins. Players win Cups

               3. Phil,

                  You ask what I think makes a good coach?

                  1) Teacher! He doesn’t whine that he doesn’t have time to teach rookies (Sullivan has done that)

                  2) Adjusts to his Opponents (Sullivan ran the same break out for several seasons and only changed it in November of last season. He kept trying to do the same thing expecting different results).

                  3) Knows enough psychology to identify the proper strategies to individualize his coaching technique to each player; Nurture 1, Call out the other. A coach that does that rarely has a player he can’t coach. Sullivan’s list is growing.

                  4) Knows enough psychology to know that ranting and raving at his team only tells the team that he is no longer in charge.

                  5) Takes the blame for every loss and doesn’t blame the players or whine that the player quit on him. He doesn’t question his players in the media like Sullivan did after the loss to the Capitals. He and his GM don’t say the team quit on him in the media like this past season. In the end the coach has control of the process so is accountable for the outcome.

                  This isn’t all that complicated. It is the same in every circumstance where individuals are given the responsibility to lead. The players on this team have been far more professional than Sullivan or JR.

               4. LOL. Hating TWO TIME STANLEY CUP WINNING coach Sullivan and HALL OF FAME GM Rutherford for getting rid of locker room cancer Daniel Sprong has you to telling tall tales and distorting comments to fill your angry needs.

            2. Thanks Phil. Well said. It seems Coaches indeed are a closed fraternity in the NHL.
               I want to change the subject and get your opinion.( OTR, Rick, and others as well. ) I came across some sports guy from Pittsburgh and he was comparing salaries and what could happen next year.It was informative and he raised a good point. The Penguins really have to win it all this year because when you look at the number of penguin players that will need large raises next year, and given the fact that the salary cap Will only increase about 5 – 6 million dollars for 2020,we simply cannot afford to sign all our existing players.Murray.Justin. McCann.Others. So with this realization Phil we have to win it all this year, or next year they will simply have no choice but to trade a LeTang, Malkin or Hornqvist.
               Your thoughts?

               1. Hey Jim,

                  Malkin and Hornqvist cannot be traded unless they themselves want to go. Malkin has a NMC and Hornqvist has a full NTC that reduces to a L-NTC in a couple of years but is full NTC right now. The Penguins could buy them out or force play similar games as they played with Kessel to try and coerce them into trades. but they can’t force a trade on them.

                  Letang has a L-NTC, much more liberal than Kessel’s but if they didn’t trade him this year, they won’t next year either. They have their heads buried in the sand. If they didn’t they would have taken the trade Montreal offered them this year. That would have represented far less damage to the team than the Kessel trade.

                  If Jarry doesn’t get traded this year, Murray will jump next year sort of with the Penguins blessings. Not trading Jarry will mean that they were sure Murray will be asking for more than Bobrovsky asked for and they will not look to match it. He is RFA so he will get max draft pick compensation but they will waste those picks in bad trades or poor picks.

                  Schultz will also be sacrificed only difference is Schultz will be let go because they think Letang is better than him and they will keep Letang until he retires regardless of the on ice evidence.

                  The cycle of champions ebbing after a few seasons is more a question of people over-valuing members of the Championship team and not being able to look critically at when a particular piece has outlived his usefulness.

                  McCann is still a bit unproven. He was on fire during the honeymoon phase after the trade, but now we have to see what he looks like over a course of a season being juggled up and down the lineup while the coach and GM try to justify their off-season miscues.

               2. Hey Jim,

                  Those are some bigger names, but I wouldn’t be surprised if JR tries to sign them to extensions at a lower price soon. Especially Shultz. Any player there who won’t sign for a normal wage he will trade as usual.

                  Mccann we will have to see how he does. If he pans out, they may use Rust’s salary to pay him.

                  If Murray has as bad a year as least year, it may be best to look a different direction anyway with him and try Jarry as a regular. Unless he has a really good season over $4.5 would be throwing money away.

   3. Hey Jim,

      I believe Bylsma was given a 2 year contract extension in June 2013 while still having 1 more year on his then current contract and was fired in June 2014. At the time Shero was quoted as saying “I believe in Dan Bylsma and I believe in stability with our coaching staff, Dan is one of the top coaches in the NHL.”

      Coaches get fired all the time even when they are just given a contract extension.

      Right now the organization is in impression management mode. The coach has run 7 players out of town with at least 2 – 3 younger players leaving on their own accord, knowing that only sycophants like Simon, regardless of how ineffective they play, or Defensemen who can’t play defense like Letang get ice time. The GM has tied his cart to the Sullivan horse much like Shero to Bylsma even though both GM and Coach(Doorman) whined and cried to the press that the whole team quit on the frenetic line/defense pair shuffling Doorman.

      Let’s face it, JR has been fumbling and bumbling (trying to force a player with a NMC to be traded, pressuring a player with a very limited NTC to be traded but doing it so publicly that he himself, the GM destroyed any trade value just to protect his popinjay doorman) he has painted himself into a corner and had to give Sullivan that extension.

      Shortly after JR tried to wash his hands of the idiocy of trading Kessel for Galchenyuk by claiming Kessel wanted traded, Kessel tweeted that no he didn’t want traded.

      JR and Sullivan are making the Penguins look worse than the Kardasian Steelers. At least in the Steelers case it was the players that were making themselves look like idiots. For the Penguins it is their coach and GM.

      To me the only thing that may save both JR and Sullivan right now is trading Letang and maybe JR figuring out a way to make the trade that fans seem to be pushing a 3 team deal with Vegas to get Gusev.

      I don’t see either trade happening, let alone both. Letang is going to be a millstone that drags this team into oblivion until he retires.

      I was hoping to see Vellucci come up around Dec, like Sullivan did and bring up the kids that deserve to be with the big club, kids who would be paid far less than some of JRs recent acquisitions and play better than Sully’s toadie and at least be within the same range as JRs recent acquisitions. Unfortunately, the contract extension probably means that the team will have to suffer until the end of the season when the team ends both the Sullivan and JR eras together, like they did with Sero/Bylsma.

      However, you are also asking about realistic trades;

      I have seen some rumblings that the Pens may be able to get rid of J Johnson. There apparently was some discussion that Montreal was looking at trading for him until they signed their version of Johnson to a ridiculous contract. There was at least one other team whose name fell of the chart, but Anaheim, at least look, still seemed to be a possibility. Unfortunately, speculation is that one of our kids has to be tied to the trade (hopefully Simon for me).

      Also, if the team is truly committed to Murray, then Jarry will be traded. They may not make a decision until half way through the season. They may carry 3 goalies until then but the longer they wait, the less Jarry will be worth since he is a goalie that needs a heavy workload and doesn’t play the back up well.

      The problem here is the Contract Bobrovsky signed. Murray has very similar numbers during the regular season but hasn’t choked in the playoffs like Bobs.
      So, unless Murray has the same demeanor that Crosby and Malkin had when they signed their very team friendly contracts I don’t expect him to ask for anything less, at least his agent will be asking for more than Bobs. However, with the way JR has treated Malkin and Kessel, I doubt Murray will be that team oriented. JR is burning bridges when it comes to those loyalty factors particularly with his treatment of Malkin in the media.

      Rust, probably. He isn’t paid as much as Bjugstad but has better trade value and unlike Hornqvist doesn’t have a NTC. I would bet Rust is next to go. The problem here is that Bjugstad, Hornqvist and Rust are the only right handed shots at forward left on the team.

      Furthermore, all three of those players are players that make it tough to play against the team. In fact the only player on the current roster that makes it easy to play against the Penguins is Letang. He is always among the strongest offensive weapon opposing teams have when playing Pgh, particularly in the playoffs.

      In the end though, I doubt anymore deals will get done for a while. They will probably wait until closer to training camp.

      1. Hey Coach,
         Great points is always.I was hoping beyond hope that Jimmy would Make a big splash and go after a few free agents.Then trade Hornqvist, Johnson, and maybe Rust.I have been noticing there is a number of UFAs still not signed. Maybe we could get lucky and pick up a defenseman, and a forward. I don’t see it happening but I remain hopeful.
         So far I think Jimmy has done as best a job as one could given all the constraints he is placed under. I read in local Quebec media that Mario will
         Not trade LeTang,Crosby, or Malkin unless They asked to be traded.
         I’m hoping that your comment above in my question to Phil.Is this the last year for the pens to win it all?
         Have a great day buddy. Eyes are pretty bad and I have to use I phone dictation as I can not see to well these days.I read using a magnifying glass, and a phone to type.But I’m really enjoying the discussions.
         Cheers

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