I’ve alluded to it on several occasions in comments to other posts. This time I decided to take a leap and address it in a full-blown article.
How will the Penguins’ top forward prospects fare under coach Mike Sullivan?
The reason I’m concerned? Samuel Poulin (6’2” 213), Drew O’Connor (6’3” 200), Nathan Legare (6’0” 208), Radim Zahorna (6’5” 220) and Anthony Angello (6’5” 210) definitely don’t fit the black-and-gold mold in terms of size or style.
Or more to the point, Sullivan’s style. One that, to his credit, led to a Stanley Cup in 2016 and contributed greatly to a repeat performance the following spring.
It’s no secret the Pens’ skipper prefers speed over brawn. Indeed, fleet feet are the lifeblood of his puck-possession game. He wants mobile, stick-on-puck defensemen who can move the biscuit to the forwards at the earliest opportunity. Likewise, he prefers fast forwards who can attack in a hurry and pressure the opposition.
With the glaring exception of Evgeni Malkin and recently signed Mark Jankowski, most of the Pens’ current forwards are built for speed and cut from a compact cloth. Sidney Crosby, Jake Guentzel, Bryan Rust, Teddy Blueger, Brandon Tanev, Evan Rodrigues and Jason Zucker all are listed at 5’11” or 6’0” and weigh between 180 and 200 pounds. To my eye, several of those listings appear generous.
“Smurf City USA,” as Other Rick is fond of saying.
Well, the aforementioned prospects decidedly aren’t Smurfs. Nor do they possess the blazing speed Sullivan prefers.
Promising as he is, Poulin’s reputed to have a ponderous first step or two (shades of Sergei Plotnikov?). Legare’s first step is decent, but he doesn’t have a top gear. Angello and Zahorna aren’t going to win any fastest skater competitions. Among the group, only O’Connor is regarded as a plus skater.
Given his preference for speed, how will that play with Sullivan? Will he try to develop these kids? Or will he stonewall them?
It’s a legitimate concern.
As a point of reference, I decided to look at a handful of big-and-tall forwards who skated for the Pens during the Sullivan era. Only two who were considered prospects…Tom Kuhnhackl and Oskar Sundqvist.
A scorer in junior and the son of a German hockey legend, Kuhnhackl carved out a niche as a defensive specialist and penalty-killer at Wilkes-Barre/Scranton. A role he continued to fill during his three seasons with the Pens.
After flashing some latent offensive skill over his first two seasons (nine goals, 31 points in 99 games) Kuhnhackl regressed in 2017-18, notching just two goals. He signed as a free agent with the Islanders and has served as a spare part under Barry Trotz.
Based on his performance on Long Island (seven goals in 64 games), I’d say Sullivan gave Kuhnhackl a fair shake.
Sundqvist, once a lock to assume Nick Bonino’s role as third-line center, tallied 20 goals for the Baby Pens in ’16-17 but obviously failed to make a lasting impression during two cameos totaling 28 games (four points, minus-4) spread over the two Cup seasons. Despite his size (6’3” 209) defensive acumen and aggressive bent, he was dealt to St. Louis for tough guy Ryan Reaves. It should be noted that Sundqvist is actually a decent skater.
Given the dearth of plus-sized prospects who’ve cut their teeth under Sullivan, I expanded my sample set to include large forwards at any stage of development…Nick Bjugstad, Eric Fehr, Derek Grant, Carter Rowney, Riley Sheahan and Reaves.
With the notable exception of Reaves (6:45 ATOI) and possibly Grant (9:02 ATOI), Sullivan gave these players ice time that reflected their role and abilities. However, none was around for very long.
In the cases of Bjugstad and Rowney, it’s hard to pin that on the coach. A fringe player with a limited upside, Rowney departed through free agency. If Bjugstad hadn’t morphed into Beau Bennett following a promising start in the ‘Burgh, he might still be skating for us.
Sheahan’s departure via trade was performance-driven. Following a solid first season with the Pens (11 goals, 32 points, 54.4 percent on faceoffs) his numbers dipped across the board in ’18-19.
With Fehr and Grant it did appear to be a matter of fit and preference. Both have heavy feet…especially the former. Fehr’s ice time dropped significantly during his second season under Sullivan before he was shipped out at the trade deadline. Grant, who’d notched 12 goals the season before he arrived, never gained any traction while he was here. He was dealt to Anaheim for Joe Blandisi…a Sully-type player…after just 25 games of limited use. For the record, Grant scored 15 goals last season.
And Reaves? In my mind, an instance where Sullivan displayed a clear-cut bias. In only his third game with the black and gold, “Reavo” delivered seven hits against Nashville, pounded out decisions over Austin Watson and Cody McLeod and, for good measure, roughed up long-time nemesis Scott Hartnell. He also scored a goal and earned star of the game honors…all in a paltry 6:23 of ice time.
During what amounted to a five-month layover in the Steel City, Reaves was afforded double-digit ice time only three times. Sullivan never gave him a chance to show what he could do.
While none of this is conclusive, at the very least it raises a caution flag. And I think GM Jim Rutherford will need to keep a close eye on Sullivan regarding how he handles these kids.
The team’s future could be at stake.
Hopefully Mike won’t be coaching in Pitt when our top prospects come up.
Amen to that
Hey Rick,
As always great stuff! Great conversation fodder!
First, let us be honest, as much as I would like to see Angello, Poulin, Legare, O’Connor, and Zahorna, (part of me would also still like to count Bjorkqvist in that group) they are not blue-chippers, even Poulin who may have been a 1st round pick, but more of a mid-first round. We should consider the team lucky if even one of them makes it long enough into the league to play 82 games. The laws of probability are stacked against all of them except maybe Poulin (63% for first round picks to make it in the NHL).
Furthermore, while we are being honest, the lack of blue-chip prospects has been accelerated by bad personnel decisions
What am I talking about? The apparent disconnect (possibly power struggle) between Sully and JR (now it is my turn for my all too often repeated rants).
Going back to much repeated discussion of the Reaves/Brassard trades. JR paid a way too high of a price for pugilist supreme Reaves. He not only gave up a Bottom 6 Center in Sundqvist but flipped his 1st round pick for St Louis’s 2nd round pick for a player that Sully refused to use.
To reiterate the discussions on these boards at the time, our friend Jim wanted the team to draft forward Klim Kostin (6’3, 212) who looks about ready to break into the NHL. I wanted the team to draft LHD Nicolas Hague (6’6, 215) who has already played 38 games.
Either of these players would look really good on this team right now. But in fact, the team has nothing to show for this deal. The player they did draft with the 2nd round pick they got in return Zach Luzon, he is out of hockey. Then they dealt Reaves to Vegas with a 4th round pick in 2018 for Tobias Lindberg. Lindberg was then traded to Ottawa (oddly enough) with Stefan Elliott for Ben Sexton and Macoy Erkamps. Sexton retired from hockey and Erkamps will be plying his trade with the Hershey Bears of the AHL this up coming season. So in the end, they gave up a 1st round pick for absolutely nothing!
How much more confident would you be right now Rick with Sundqvist playing 3rd line Center rather than Jankowski and either Kostin playing 3rd line RW instead of Rodrigues or Hague playing LHD instead Matheson and Hornqvist traded for someone better than Matheson or even Hornqvist still playing 3rd line RW instead of Rodrigues.
Your point is extremely valid, Sullivan’s aversion to anyone with size and sand has not only hurt the team in the past but could cost the team more into the future.
I would love to see all of those big Prospects develop, even under Sullivan but history would seem to indicate a pattern of further frustration.
Hey Other Rick,
Great comments and insights.
Like you, I wonder about a disconnect between Sullivan and Rutherford. We’ve hashed this out on many occasions but it bears repeating. There seems to be somewhat of a revolving door for big-and-tall types and/or physical players.
Rutherford appears to have a sense that we need at least some size and physicality. But, as I documented in my article, most of the bigger guys are shown the door in a relatively short time frame.
In a few cases it’s a function of effectiveness…or rather ineffectiveness…but not all. We can’t overlook the fact that contract status plays a part in it, too. But I do think Sullivan has a bias against larger players and/or guys who aren’t especially fast.
Understandable in a way, given that he wants to play a speed game. But as we’ve discussed on so many occasions, you need different elements to make a team complete. Even if they don’t come wrapped in a warp-drive package.
Rick
PS–Thanks for the nudge about Sundqvist…I forgot to include him in my original article. I’m slippin’… 🙁
Way back when, when the team still had Sundqvist and Hornqvist and the just drafted Bjorkqvist (although he is Finnish and the other 2 are Swedish) I mused about the possibilities of a qvist line (Harkening back to the days when teams used to have fairly set lines with line names similar to the HBK line, but remember the Century Line; MacDonald-Apps-Pronovost or the French Connection; Martin-Perreault-Robert, the Dynasty Line; Shutt-Mahovlich/Lemaire-Lafleur). They would never have been as prolific as those more famous lines; I was just thinking more in terms of theme names.
The “Qvist Line”…love it.
Changing the subject, maybe we don’t need to worry about Poulin after all. There’s a nice piece about him on Pittsburgh Hockey Now, and apparently his skating has improved quite a bit. They included some video clips to back it up. He looks fast and decisive…at least when compared to the competition.
PHN feels Poulin may be ready for third-line duty in the NHL. He sure would be a welcome addition.
Ironically, the only drawback? It sounds like he doesn’t use his very good size to full advantage.
Rick
What a load of crap! Sullivan had no problems playing Sheahan and Bonino, neither of who could skate. Especially Bonino.
This is classic. There isn’t enough real stuff to complain about so you have to invent some. This is the credit default swap of whining.
Hey Stratton,
I overlooked Sheahan in my evaluation. Who didn’t last real long here, either. My bad.
In terms of a load of crap, that’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. But rather than potshotting everyone else’s comments and opinions…your specialty…let’s see you offer something in the way of a constructive comment that’s really worth responding to.
Rick
Rick,
You need not apologize for overlooking Sheehan, he only reaffirms your argument. If Sully really wanted to use him, the team would not have given away the house for Brassard. And in the same vein as my above discussion about how the team throws away assets, all that is left from the Brassard debacle is McCann and if Sully miss uses him, he may fade away to another team and another trade will lead to absolute 0 return.
Also, I wouldn’t bother responding to this guy. He has no opinions only childish whining and personal attacks, so his posts have no value. I have stopped even reading his drivel. Had you not responded to his nonsense, I wouldn’t even be writing here.
Thanks Other Rick,
I did go back and update my article to include Sheahan…don’t know how I overlooked him.
And thank you, as always, for your friendship, support and astute comments. I think we both do our best to come up with topics that perhaps aren’t covered or addressed by other blogs and, as you say, might make for lively discussion or banter.
Maybe some of my pieces are a little out there, but I do try to keep it “interesante” as our friend Kimi might say… 🙂
Rick