By now I’m sure most of you have heard the rumblings. Penguins GM Jim Rutherford is reported to have more than a passing interest in Vancouver’s free-agent defenseman Chris Tanev, who happens to be black-and-gold winger Brandon Tanev’s big brother. A signing that could only occur if JR is able to clear a significant chunk of cap space, say in the form of heart-and-soul winger Patric Hornqvist.
Still, I feel like the little kid who approached Shoeless Joe Jackson in the wake of the Black Sox Scandal and bleated, “Say it ain’t so, Joe!”
Say it ain’t so, JR!
It’s not my intent to demean the elder Tanev. On the surface, he might appear to be an attractive addition. The 10-year NHL vet’s a right-hand shot with 514 games under his belt. He’s served as a top four-guy with the Canucks. His career plus-minus (plus-43) is decent enough, especially when you consider Vancouver’s been a non-playoff team for much of that time. He’s a horse, too, averaging nearly 20 minutes of ice time per game for his career.
And Tanev does display the family grit, albeit in a different way than his kid brother, who’s routinely among the league leaders in hits. Chris traditionally blocks his share of shots…159 this season, which ranked fourth in the league.
What’s not to like, right?
Welllllll…
For starters, he’s totaled only 22 goals and 118 points during his career, so he’s decidedly not a puck-mover or offensive threat. On a team that already has a paucity of production from the blue line? Maybe not the best fit.
And aggressive as Brandon is, Chris seems to be equally tame when it comes to physical play. He has only 201 hits for his career. To put that in perspective, Brandon had 244 hits this season alone!
A stay-at-home defenseman who doesn’t use the body? That raises a huge red flag to me.
So do his possession numbers. After being a possession driver early in his career, he’s been a negative in 5-on-5 shot attempts for each of the past five seasons…including a whopping minus-311 over the past two seasons combined.
Same with his Corsi. In each of the past four seasons, he’s logged a sub-50 Corsi, and not just by a little. We’re talkin’ Jack Johnson numbers.
Which brings me to my point. If the Pens sign Tanev with the intent of playing him beside Johnson, it would be a disaster of Biblical proportions. Two 30-something defensemen who struggle to possess and move the puck?
The carnage…the humanity. And we thought Johnson and Justin Schultz were a bad pairing!
Even if…and it’s a huge if…the Pens find a taker for Johnson, is Tanev really the type of player you’d want skating next to prospect Pierre-Olivier Joseph or Juuso Riikola?
Perhaps the most disturbing aspect of the rumors…one that literally sends a chill down my spine? The notion that Rutherford might try to lock up Tanev for around $5 million per year for multiple seasons.
Dear Lord. Hasn’t he learned anything from the Johnson and Rob Scuderi fiascos? To say nothing of Matt Hunwick.
I’ve been a JR supporter since the first Cup year. Despite a penchant to overpay, I think he’s done a good job. Those two Cups didn’t happen by accident. But if he moves out Hornqvist or other assets for the purpose of signing Tanev to a long-term deal?
Definitely time to check his sanity. And look for a new GM.
Random thought,
Assuming that these Hornqvist rumors are true and he does get traded,
the team will be forced into a major change at least on the PP.
It will be interesting who will inherit the net front presence or will they dispense with anyone going to the net and everyone hang out on the perimeter?
Maybe Poulin will be getting a serious look.
Maybe Angello
It will make for an interesting 2020-2021
The Other Rick
Good point – hopefully this is just the beginning of the revamping
process. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Florida has 20mil in available cap space – maybe there taking
on JJ’s contract?? just a wild thought! lol
That would be great.
I am not as big of a JJ basher as many but to get out from under his contract would be great.
I would try and get a draft pick though.
The reason they have so much Cap space is they only have 6 FWDs and 5 D under contract right now, so maybe a package deal where we send them Maybe ZAR and the rights to Simon as well to try and get a 2nd round pick in the exchange. I know I am reaching.
It never hurts to reach – Even if we acquire a 3rd or 4th along
with Matheson – change is necessary with this team.
From what I read about Matheson is that he is a good skater with a booming shot (Love the Booming shot part) but he is a bigger Give Away artist than Letang. 2-Yrs ago he had 135 Gv.
With Dumoulin, Riikola, Pettersson, Johnson, and Joseph, I wonder who all will be out the door, or if Matheson himself is part of a 3 way trade.
The hold up in the Horny to Panthers trade is the Pen’s inability to reach
him and agree to the trade.
I am still wondering (Hoping) if this is a straight up trade or if there as other assets involved.
Hi Rick,
News from the rumor mill: “Breaking News”
The Pens are trading Patrick Hornqvist to Florida for defenseman Mike Matheson.
— 55
Just got a rumor text Hornqvist for Mike Matheson a LHD.
I am not sure about anything here.
Checking the legitimacy of the rumor now.
Only saying this now because of the nature of your article Rick.
This could be like most of the Rumors I hear – speculation.
They will only save $425,000
I think its legit – LeBrun is reporting it on TSN and is surprised
it hasn’t been made official – Maybe Horny is holding it up?
Wouldn’t surprise me.
Now I am really curious as to all the terms.
Rick
I’m sitting here scratching my head – I can’t understand why everyone is
getting upset with the names being thrown around in trade rumors. I
think everyone is in agreement that JR needs to shake things up – so on
that note where do the changes take place?
Somebody has to go and teams probably have little or no interest in players
like Simon, ZAR, Sheary (FA) etc…. – JR has to move a player with value and get
value in return. I’m not a fan of moving Horny for several reasons but the biggest
for me is his style of play which the Pens sorely need – How do you replace
what he brings to the team?
For the Pen’s to compete for the Cup next season IMO they have to add more
size and toughness or will be having the same conversation next year after a
quick playoff exit. Crosby should be the only player not available – everyone
else should be fair game for the right price. This team is missing something so
JR needs to give them a makeover.
If your watching this years playoffs “Lord” the Pen’s would never be able
to stand up to the physical abuse these teams are putting on each other.
Hey Mike
I agree that the Penguins could never stand up under the physical abuse of these playoffs and I can’t speak for anyone but me, but that is part of my rant. Why would we trade down in grit. And that is what we are talking about here, trading Hornqvist (grit personified) for a middle to low pairing D-man who will quickly turn into another Scuderi, Hunwick, or Johnson signing, (a long moderately expensive contract to an aging veteran with no upside).
And again as I argue below, in terms of money by trading Hornqvist, you aren’t going to save much because you will either have to eat salary or take back salary in return.
And you will have to treat Hornqvist like an ugly step-child in the process to get him to waive the NTC.
The team loses all the way around – Hockey Acumen, Money, and PR.
And what could be worse is that they could get the RHD, as I wrote below, trading Zucker to Carolina and save $1 million in the process.
Yes changes need to be made, but positive changes not the same old same old that put the team in the predicament that it is in right now.
Hey Rick,
Amen; my reaction was, “Say What?”!
It wouldn’t be the first time that he tried collecting brother tandems (Eric and Jordan)
What is worse is that the article that I read said the source of those rumblings was an inside source.
Not sorry, if there is any validity to these rumblings JR needs 302ed.
He is no longer responsible enough to be in charge of his or anyone else’s affairs.
1) Hornqvist has a full NTC so JR would have to subject Hornqvist to duress to get him to waive that clause, duress ill befitting a player of Hornqvist’s team commitment and sacrifice.
2) As you rightly point out, although Chris Tanev is tough in the sense that he willingly throws his body in front of shots to block them he is as soft as can be otherwise. In the meantime Hornqvist is grit personified. If JR would extort Hornqvist to relinquish his NTC then this team would drop to a softness of catastrophic proportions.
3) It is highly unlikely that any team is going to trade Picks and Prospects for Hornqvist. The highest probability is that JR would have to take on salary in exchange for salary so at best he can do is save about $1 million in any exchange.
4) There is a D-man out there significantly younger than Tanev’s 30 whose offensive skills are similar to Tanev’s, is tougher, and has better possession numbers and may be had in a trade for an expensive Winger who only has a mNTC, Zucker
– I hear your argument Rick that the team just traded for him, so you may be right, they may be reticent to trade him. I am just saying that they should.
* Zucker is $5.5 million per year, has a history of fading down the stretch run and playoffs and the team had a pathetic record of 6-8-1 in the regular season and 1-3, in that weird qualifying mockery, after trading for him. Compare that to the fact that the team was winning before the trade and Zucker is seriously expendable.
* Zucker’s $5.5 million is $0.2 million higher than Hornqvist’s $5.3 million
* Estimates are that Tanev will get about $5 million in FA, Pesce is signed for $4.025 or about $1 million less.
* Tanev’s 82 GP Avg is 4G, 15A, 32Hits, 168Blks, 25Tk, 40Gv (-15 Tk:Gv), 49.2 CORSI EV.
* Pesce’s 8s GP Avg is 5G, 19A, 51Hits, 130Blks, 54Tk, 34Gv (+20 Tk:Gv), 52.8 CORSI EV.
Tanev’s best +/- in a season was +12, Pesce has already posted a +23 and +35
* Rumblings out of Carolina is that they need a Fwd and may be willing to part with a D because they are so deep. the HockeyWriters have suggested that the Canes have a prospect that should be brought up and given a chance to flourish (What an idea! give a kid a break) and Pesce be sacrificed for that Fwd.
– Buffalo is also supposed to be in the market and the rights to Brandon Montour may be on the line, although I would try for Ristolainen first
* Montour made $3.5 million and would likely get about $1 more when he signs, which is still less than Zuckers $5.5
* Montour is only 26 years old
* Montour’s 82 GP Avg is 8G 23, 95Hits, 101Blks, 24Tk, 60Gv (-36), CORSI EV 48.8
* Risolainen would only save the team $100k swapped for Zucker ($5.4 mil Cap hit) but He is only 25 years old 6’4, 218lbs with an 82GP Avg of 7G, 31A, 193Hits, 130Blks, 19Tk, 46Gv (-27), CORSI EV 44.8
– And as Kingarski points out that all evidence points to Poulin being ready or close to ready and Zucker would only be holding him back.
Of the 4 D-men in this conversation Pesce makes the most sense, Ristolainen next, and Montour 3rd. Tanev makes the least sense as he will come at too high of a price tag.
But JR can have his next Brother combo, no matter how it destroys the team.
The Other Rick
I’m not disputing any of your claims to player acquisitions but I think
sometimes fans fail to realize that just because a player is available or
he’s a better fit for your team with a lower cap hit for whatever reason
you cant acquire him.
For instance – while working in the front office we had freed up over
30 million to pursue the top two FA’s available – No other team came
within 10 mil in available cap space – we didn’t get either player.
My point here is don’t think just because JR settles on a player he didn’t
miss on what people perceive to be a better option. With Tanev JR may
of had a list of 4 or 5 players that he liked – Its possible Tanev was # 5 on
that list but he was the only player in that group he could sign. Many times
thats how it shakes down.
I hear you about fans sometimes.
But I find it hard to believe that he is going to clear enough space to go after Tanev when a trade for Pesce (assuming Carolina would be willing in my scenario).
If the above rumors about Matheson being the guy JR is going after, he’ll never be able to afford Tanev, if it is a straight up trade, he will only save $425,000 and be somewhat locked in $4.875 mil contract for 6 years. Fortunately Matheson doesn’t have a NTC.
And Hornqvist will have to waive his NTC to make that a go.
I agree – I’m guessing this is the start of a wave of
moves by JR.
I am hoping that at least Simon gets caught up in the wave and as you mention above clear out JJs contract. If Fla takes JJ as well as Horny that now comes up to ~$4 mil