My esteemed colleague, Other Rick, has written on numerous occasions that our Penguins needed to blow up their defense and start over. Well my friend, you got your wish.
In a pair of rapid-fire trades that I confess caught me totally by surprise (picture the proverbial ostrich with his head stuck in the ground), GM Ron Hextall gave our blue line corps a significant makeover yesterday. In his first of two stunning deals, he sent John Marino, 25, to New Jersey for Ty Smith, a 22-year-old puck-moving defenseman, and a third-round pick in 2023. Hours later he shipped 28-year-old rearguard Mike Matheson and a fourth-round pick in 2023 to Montreal for veteran defenseman Jeff Petry, 34, and forward Ryan Poehling, 23.
I’ll be honest. I’m still in a state of semi-shock, which is why it’s taken me so long to gather my thoughts and (hopefully) pull something reasonably coherent together.
Without further ado, here’s my take:
Who We Got
Jeff Petry: NHL stats (803 games, 87 goals, 235 assists, 322 points, minus-121, 325 PIM)
Son of former major-league pitcher Dan Petry, Jeff’s a big (6’3” 209), minutes-munching defenseman with an offensive bent, including a heavy shot. He’s physical (a career-high 190 hits in 2018-19) and does the dirty work, blocking shots and the like. But his forte is moving the puck and controlling the tempo of a game in the manner of former Pens great Larry Murphy.
A true all-arounder, Petry excels in all situations…even strength, quarterbacking the power play and on the PK.
The downside? Petry’s giveaway numbers are high and he’s been a consistent minus player throughout his career despite good production (four straight seasons of double-figure goals and 40-plus points before a drop-off last season).
He’s got three years left on deal with an AAV of $6.25 million.
Ty Smith: NHL stats (113 games, 7 goals, 36 assists, 43 points, minus-35, 44 PIM)
Smith, a mobile, undersized puck-moving defenseman of the Cale Makar mold, put up great numbers in junior with Spokane. Like Marino, he burst onto the scene as a first-year pro and made the All-Rookie Team before falling back in his second season.
Unfortunately, my enduring image of Smith isn’t positive. During a game against the Devils on February 13, the lightweight defender was overpowered by Brian Boyle at the side of the net, which led directly to a net-front goal by the Boyler. (Funny how that stuck in my head.)
While it wasn’t for a lack of try on Smith’s part, that’s what 5”11” 180 will do for you in close-quarter scrums.
His contract is a plus…Smith makes an affordable $863,333 and he can be sent to the Baby Pens without being exposed to waivers. He’ll be an RFA after the coming season.
Ryan Poehling: NHL stats (85 games, 13 goals, 9 assists, 22 points, minus-22, 10 PIM)
The former first-round pick (25th overall) made the most auspicious of debuts when scored a hat trick in his first NHL game. You might say his career has gone downhill from there.
At 6’2” and 197 pounds, the 23-year-old Poehling boasts decent size (especially for a Penguin forward), skates well and is an aggressive forechecker, a trait that should endear him to coach Mike Sullivan. He’s a natural center who can also play wing. Poehling will use his size and hit if the situation calls for it.
In terms of dropping the gloves in true power-forward fashion?
Fuggedaboutit. With a total of 10 penalty minutes in 85 NHL games, Rocky Balboa he ain’t. More like Lady Byng.
Who We Gave Up
Mike Matheson: NHL stats (417 games, 49 goals, 89 assists, 138 points, minus-9, 218 PIM)
I HATE parting with Matheson, in my humble opinion a rising star. I loved the elements of Mike’s game, the world-class speed, the shot, the ability to make scoring plays out of nothing simply by turning on the jets. A one-man transition game and the closet thing we’ve had to Paul Coffey since the good Doctor graced the Civic Arena ice all those years ago.
Matheson also displayed a bit of an edge and a willingness to come to a teammate’s aid even though fighting’s not his forte. Although he’ll never be confused with Dave Burrows, he tightened up his puck management and defensive play considerably during his stint in the Steel City.
About the only negative? A bit of a Han Solo, he’s not a great puck distributor, which limited his effectiveness on the power play.
If there’s a silver lining, the Pens shed the last four years of Matheson’s contract (AAV of $4.875). Plus, he has backloaded signing bonuses starting in ‘23-24 that bring his salary up to $6.5 million.
John Marino: NHL stats (189 games, 10 goals, 54 assists, 64 points, plus-23, 51 PIM)
I still think Marino has the makings of a really good defenseman. He may have unwittingly set the bar (and our expectations) too high with his preternatural rookie season. John’s better when he lets the game come to him…kind of like a counterpuncher in boxing.
I suspect Mike Sullivan/Todd Reirden encouraged him to push the envelope on his offensive game, which I think took him out of his comfort zone. If the Devils let Marino be Marino I think they’ll have a very good, mobile, all-around defenseman on their hands.
As with Matheson, we benefit from a dollars and cents standpoint by dumping the final five years of his contract, which carries an AAV of $4.4 million.
My Take
I’d like the Montreal trade a lot better if we’d somehow flipped Jason Zucker for 226-pound power-forward Josh Anderson, rumored to be in play. Don’t know if that was remotely on the table or just a figment of my fevered imagination.
We considerably strengthened the right side of our defense while adding some much-needed size with the addition of Petry (I’ll include free-agent pick-up Jan Rutta as well). And we cut salary and opened up a slot on the left side of defense for Pierre-Olivier Joseph and/or Smith. But I truly hated to give up Matheson, a dynamic player who may prove to be the best of the bunch before all is said and done.
Still, I give Hextall the highest of marks for stepping out of his comfort zone and rolling the dice on such high-profile trades. Our mix was a bit stale and he certainly has shaken things up.
On ice, we gave up a good defenseman (Marino) and a very good defenseman (Matheson) for a better albeit aging defenseman (Petry) and two prospects. A lot hinges on the development of Poehling and Smith.
If the latter turns out to be a poor man’s Makar? Ka-ching…jackpot city. However, there’s something unsettling about so young a player already being viewed as a reclamation project. Smith could just as easily morph into the next Will Butcher, another undersized puck-moving defenseman signed with much fanfare by the Devils. Once a hot commodity who made the All-Rookie team, Butcher’s steadily regressed since.
Has an eerily familiar ring, doesn’t it?
For now, that image of Boyle overpowering Smith keeps playing in my head.
Financially, we gained considerable cap flexibility by clearing two long-term contracts off the books while gleaning some short-term savings (about $1.4 million of cap space) as well. Well done in that regard.
My overall opinion? I’m sorely tempted to borrow a line from the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail following his sword duel with King Arthur and “Call it a draw.” (It should be noted he’d had his limbs hacked off.) But I think we’re probably a (slightly) better team following the trades than before, mostly due to the financial gains and the acquisition of Petry. Usually the team that gets the best player wins the deal, and I think overall Petry gets a nod over Matheson in that regard.
A narrow win for Hextall.
Saw this posted on twitter:
Average team age as of projected rosters 22-23 Season.
1. Pittsburgh – 30.0
2. Washington – 29.7
3. Tampa Bay – 29.1
4. St. Louis – 28.8
5. NY Islanders – 28.6
6. Toronto – 28.1
7. Vegas – 28.0
Interesting that the top four teams make up 6 out of the last 7 Stanley Cup winners. I don’t have Colorado’s average age. Pittsburgh started last season at 28.7 average age. Dallas started out last year at 30.1 average age a year after being in the Cup final.
With regard to the trades, I really don’t have any strong opinion, although I’ll really miss the Mike Matheson Show, but I think I get what’s going on. Hextall apprently had two goals: win now and build up the prospect pool. These trades seem to accomplish both seemingly contradictory ends. The get a high level defense and some younger players plus slightly better draft position. The cost was intermediate age players, Marino and Matheson who were apparently judged no good enough to win with now and yet too old to be part of the inevitable rebuild. If Ty Smith ever becomes a top 4 defenseman, it will probably be a good move. Otherwise, who knows. From all I’ve read, Poehling has very little upside, so I’m writing him off from the start. But then again, its barely an educated guess. Unlike some people, I not afraid to show some humility when predicting the future.
There is perhaps another more subtle reason for the trades – getting help for Malkin. The usual Malkin excuse is that he needs better wingers. You hear that a lot now, but there used to be a lot of noise that poor Malkin gets leftovers on defense too. Crosby is out there with Letang while Malkin gets someone not so good. Petry solves the Malkin problem. Instead of getting another top 6 wing for him, they apparently decided to hope for the best with Zucker/Kapanen and get him better defensive support. Matheson what great at skating the breakout but I doubt that anyone would call him an especially good passer.
Hey Zeidel,
I think that Crosby and Malkin have rotated who has had the best wingers over the years. During the James Neal years Malkin had way better wingers while they were trying to find anyone that would work with Crosby.
The interesting thing about the James Neal era in Penguin Hockey (2010-11 thru 2013-14), Sidney Crosby played (41, 22, 36, and 80, so it really may not have been a question of Malkin getting the better wingers over Crosby by design but a question of Malking getting better Wingers by default.
ah, I forgot about Steckel taking out Crosby for a good bit. I couldn’t remember exactly when Neal’s time was I just remember them trying to find anyone who worked with Crosby while Malkin and Neal were putting up some good numbers.
When people say things that are clearly wrong, they should be called out for it. The idea that Matheson is better than Letang is beyond absurd. And I really like Matheson and am sorry to see him go. He’s a fun player.
I admit that I grow frustrated on these hockey discussions because I am hoping for adult level dialog such as your. But the seeming inevitable childish rants crush those hopes and irritate the heck out of me. It is one thing to disagree. It is quite another to panic and go on a rant like some unnamed person has done. The only thing to do is to call these people out in no uncertain terms. I am sorry if you see the attempt challenge nonsense as overly aggressive, but it is hard to sit here and bite my tongue when I see nonsense being written. However, I accept that since it is your site, you are certainly entitled to make the rules.
Wrong in whose eyes?
As Other Rick stated, we all have opinions, often times differing. I don’t think any of us is the be-all, end-all arbiter of what’s right and what’s wrong, or gives us the right to judge the opinions of others, no matter how strongly or passionately we may disagree.
Again, and I’m going to reinforce this for the last time. I don’t mind if you disagree with someone’s thoughts or opinions…that’s part of what makes a blog go. It’s perfectly okay for you to say “Hey, I disagree” or “Rick, I strongly disagree” or “I have a totally different take on this” and then proceed to share your thoughts and opinions in a non-put down way.
I do object to you using terms as “wrong” or “stupid” or “ridiculous” or “nonsense” or anything else that’s meant to belittle others or somehow make them feel inferior. There’s no place for that on this blog.
If that’s the kind of dialogue you enjoy, then I would respectfully but strongly recommend that you find another blog.
Rick
Hey Zeidel,
I don’t drink the Letang koolaid, never did. They fact that he led the entire NHL three years in a row in give-aways is a pretty damning stat. I also believe that up until last year, he was clueless on how to pass to a teamates sweet spot for a one-timer on the powerplay and his inability to control his slap shot on powerplays forcing him to take weak half shots has always brought the powerplay down.
Letang had his best year last year, I wasn’t mad at him all season like normal. He was also on the main powerplay all year and only had two goals. I would bet the farm Matheson would have had more if not just by the fact Matheson had more goals than Letang last year overall playing way less minutes and not being on the main powerplay. Matheson had a better giveaway and better takeaway percentages, the giveaway percentage is a good barometer of a players passing ability.
That all being said, Matheson was “arguably” the Penguins best defenseman.
At Matheson’s age hockey wise it would have been way smarter to keep Matheson. Letang sells tickets is the only reason he is still on the roster. That and he helped the Penguins win 2 Stanley Cups.
Hey Guys,
Call me crazy but I am just happy Hextal finally did something so drastic. I may not like every move so far,but we can definitely say the team will have a different feel come October and for me, I can live with that.
We have not lost in the past 4 years in the first round because of Sid, Geno, Kris, and Jake….The reason we lost is because we did NOT have enough talent around them to get the job done.
I believe we are a better team today than a week ago and Hextal is not finished.
One more KEY POINT I wish to make. Que the music and fire works…. For the FIRST TIME in a very long time the Pittsburgh Penguins have 6 FIRST ROUND draft picks in their organization. I just realized that and thought I must be dreaming.
For the past 4-5 years I have complained about the lack of First Round draft picks in our system.
This will give Hextal the trade chips he needs to make a big trade come February.
I also realize not all of them below will wear a Penguins jersey at the NHL level, but it is a step in the right direction.
1.Owen Pickering 21st 2022
2. Sam Poulin, 21st 2019
3. Ty Smith 17th 2018
4. Ryan Poehling 25th 2017
5. Joesph Pierre- Oliver 23rd 2017
6.3. Alex Nylander 8th 2016
Cheers
Jim
Hello, my friend.
I’m not calling you crazy and I agree with you. Maybe Hextall’s moves aren’t perfect…I would have preferred not to trade Matheson…but he’s done whatever he could to change the makeup of the team.
I remember back in 1995 when then-GM Craig Patrick traded away Kevin Stevens, Shawn McEachern, Luc Robitaille, Ulf Samuelsson and Larry Murphy (and jettisoned Joey Mullen and Kjell Samuelsson), while receiving Brian Smolinski, Glen Murray, Petr Nedved, Sergei Zubov and Dmitri Mironov in return. It didn’t seem we got nearly as good as we gave, but we wound up going to the Conference Finals that year.
Sometimes a shake-up is necessary.
Also agree that Hextall is doing his utmost to walk young talent back into the organization without the benefit of prime draft picks.
Rick
Hey Jim,
Interesting way of looking at the trades and Hextal picking up others first round picks. Makes the Penguins the Island for Misfit Toys.
Hey Phil,
I will take the misfits any day of the week over our other so called century series draft picks we have in our talent pool. You know the ones, the 4th, 5th and 6 th rounders with a 1 or a 2 in front on their names….151 , 206 ….
I just keeping thinking to my self with all the other 31 NHL Teams and all their fine scouting staff , some world wide, at 151 st you are not getting the cream of the crop. A lot of great hockey minds passed on that player for a reason.
There are exceptions to the rule Phil like Patric Hornqvist, drafted last in his draft class and he went on to have a great career. But the odds of that happening on a regular basis is like getting struck by lighting….Twice..haha
Nice to hear from you..
Cheers
JIM
…
Hey Rick,
Calling me out? Yes, the Pens sort of started to do what I asked, they are remaking their defense. I don’t have a problem with picking up Petry, he has some size and uses it. Rutta, yes he has size but he doesn’t use it. Smith doesn’t have size nor the inclination to use it. POJ is tall but is a stalk of wheat in the wind. Pettersson is tall but like POJ doesn’t use it. Dumoulin was once a stalwart Defenseman, but was well below his norm last year.
So, Hextall did move pieces, but I wanted Hague and Zadorov – both big men not afraid to use their size, both with heavy point shots and both younger than Petry.
On a side note Rick, an individual we both know showed me some video of our Pens prospects as they visited the Pittsburgh Fire Academy last week for a photo op and workout that the Fire recruits go thru. Ansons was impressive. He attacked the course they prospects had to go through. Our first, first round pick in several years was less than impressive. Looks like he needs several off-seasons with a good strength and conditioning coach.
Rick
I agree to disagree. IMO Matheson is the best player in the trade with Montreal and for me it’s a head
scratcher that Hextall threw in a 4th round pick. Especially since Montreals GM said they wouldn’t make
the trade if Matheson wasn’t included and Hextall said he really didn’t want to move Matheson.
If this trade was made 4 years ago I would give the nod to Petry when he was hitting 30.
Also, without knowing about backloaded bonuses in Matheson’s contract the Pen’s actually break close to
even on the deal. Petry has (3)years left at 6.250,000 and Matheson has (4) years left at 4,875,000.
1st year it’s costing them 2,125,000 – 2nd year with Poehling off the books (RFA) 1,375,000 – 3rd year 1,375,000.
That totals 4,875,000 the cost of Matheson’s 4th year. Plus the downside here is there stuck with Petry’s
contract until it expires when he’ll be 37 “ouch” – At least with Matheson and the way he was playing he would
of remained trade-able for several years. The Marino trade is definitely in Hextall’s favor although I don’t think
Ty Smith will ever crack our lineup Hextall was able to unload a savings of 3,356,000 for this year with Smith
falling off at years end (RFA) plus we picked up a 3rd round pick. To me he won one lost one but to loose
Matheson who’s game gave the Penguins a dimension that no one else has really hurts.
Rick, also none of these players besides Petry will make an impact in the category of toughness, and he’s aging,
he will turn 35 in December. One last point about Petry and Rutta – there 6’3 & 6’4 respectively and both weigh in
at 200lbs – not exactly what I would call girth – maybe taller but both on the lean side based on height. I will say
that Petry will be our most physical defenseman.
Rick, sorry about my comment on your last post, I sort of said some negative things to Zeidel. My apologies.
Hey Mike,
Absolutely no need to apologize for pushing back, my friend. When someone comes at you as sharply as Zeidel did, it’s understandable you’d respond in kind. I’d respond the exact same way if I felt like I was under attack.
That’s why my caution was directed at him.
You make a lot of good points, some on the financial end that I hadn’t really considered. And believe me, I didn’t want to trade Matheson. I felt like he really emerged this past season and went a long way to fulfilling his enormous promise. I love the tool-kit he brings. If his career arc continues upward, we traded away one heck of a player. And even if last season represents his top end, believe me that’s plenty good.
We’ll see how Smith develops. It just seems like these undersized defensemen, with few exceptions (Makar, Torey Krug) come into the league playing at a certain level, but just can’t compensate defensively or physically for their lack of size and strength.
Rick