Preface: Thank you, latest incarnation of Snowmageddon. If it weren’t for you, I probably wouldn’t have had time to write today, or even read the quote that inspired me to write.
The NHL season is a marathon not a sprint and it ends in a war called the “Stanley Cup Playoffs. One game hardly constitutes a need for panic or anointing. Teams will have winning streaks and losing streaks. There will be bumps a long the road and smooth straight highways.
A couple of weeks back with our favorite flightless fowl riding a 10 game winning streak, mostly against the lower echelon of the NHL and with all opponents suffering the same ills that befall our heroes, Many a fan were hailing this team as legitimate Cup contenders; some still are.
Now the streak is over. In fact, the team has been inconsistently trading back-and-forth between Wins (W) and Loses (L). The “Glass Half Full” set are now decrying that the team is only inconsistent because of the number of players that have been protocol led out of games and/or injured, totally forgetting that many of the teams our Pittsburgh Penguins bested during the “streak” were suffering as Mike Sullivan and his crew have now suffered.
Me, I have been accused of being less than a fan because I am not buying into the idea of this team as a real Cup contender. I have been proselytizing that the team be sellers at the trade deadline, selling off Dunsel forwards that could still net a decent return – particularly from our friend and new General Manager of the Vancouver Canucks, Jim Rutherford. He loves to overpay and get players that once played for him.
This morning I read an interesting quote from Dan Kingerski, “The big get on the NHL trade block will be John Klingberg. Unless GM Ron Hextall puts a couple of the Penguins core on the block, Klingberg will be the BIG get.”
Hmmm
If I were sold on this team, I would not be talking about the possibility of trading a couple of the core. If I thought this team were a true contender and not a pretender, that core that could challenge John Klingberg for the “BIG get”, as described by Kingerski, this deadline, would be better used as in-house rentals.
With this team losing to the Dallas Stars and Los Angeles Kings and barely beating the Anaheim Ducks and going to Over Time (OT) against the San Jose Sharks, has the team lost some luster? Is Kingerski seeing some cracks in the armor? Is he trying to prepare the fan base for the inevitable?
Anything is possible. I am not saying our Penguins won’t make the Cup Finals, but the probability isn’t all that great. There would have to be a great confluence of coincidences for that to occur. Furthermore, there is an opportunity here to limit the turn around time to contender again and with less luck than it would take to win the Cup this season.
Odds and Sods
- Jason Zucker is being listed as a game time decision.
- Our AHL affiliate, the Wilkes Barre – Scranton Penguins won their 2nd straight game, after a long stretch of losing, 2 – 1 Sunday, against the Hershey Bears. Alexander Nylander opened up the scoring with a Power Play Goal (PPG) from Sam Poulin and Pierre-Olivier Joseph. Newcomer, Patrick Watling got the Game Winning Goal (GWG) at 9:17 of the 3rd with an Assist from Nathan Légaré.
- Vegas Knights tonight at 10:00 PM on ATTSN. Go Pens
The Other Rick
Contender or no contender the Penguins should not pursue Klingberg. I’m not sure what the attraction
would be. He’s physically challenged and he has a horrible turnover to takeaway ratio. He’ll turn 30 this
coming August and has a salary cap hit of 6M. I know how you love to evaluate by the numbers so I’m
pretty certain you would agree with me.
GO PENS
Hey MIke,
No I don’t want Klingberg. My point is this; If a person (in this case Kingerski) thinks the team is a true contender they would not even mention the Penguins 2 Core players (Malkin and Letang) as possibly ending up on the trading block to rival Klingberg. Malkin and Letang are more valuable than Klingberg. You only conside trading these players if you don’t believe in the team. Ergo, Kingarski doesn’t believe (either consciously or subconsciously) that this team is a true contender.
Rick
“OKAY ZUCKER”?? Lol – Best player on the ice tonight for the Pen’s with (2) goals. Like many I’m not pushing
for a Zucker trade. I think you have to be very careful when you start to trade proven scorers. Not to mention
he’s one of our most physical forwards. The idea that he doesn’t have chemistry with Malkin is really a way to
make excuses for Malkin’s poor play when teamed with Zucker. I would like to see Zucker scoring more goals
as well but theirs more to winning than putting the puck in the net “Just ask the Oilers” who have the best one-
two offensive combination in the NHL.
The great think about this year’s Penguins is they have a balance scoring attack. Different players stepping up
night after night but I still think they need to add some toughness prior to playoffs. If Hextall finds away to do
that without parting with any of our key components then they have a legitimate chance at the Cup.
Hey Mike,
Zucker; this was 1 game, where was he for the first 30 Games he played before Malkin came back? He had 4 Goals before Malkin came back to carry him, 4 Goals. Malkin came back and he got 2 more. Yes 1 was on the PP, but again, were was he for 30 Games? More importantly, where will he be over the next 30 games. Zucker is historically bad in March and April. over his career he only has 14 G and 32 Pnts in 72 GP in March and is a -6. In April he has 9 G and 145 Pnts in 41 GP and is -12.
He, like many a player on this team is past his prime. He is 30. Even if he pots 10 more G over the next 30 GP, it doesn’t make him integral. It only builds his stock to sell him off to JR. Even if you believe you are a contender, Zucker is a Dunsel. I would deal him for a draft pick but even if I thought I was a contender, I still would deal but for “D”
I may appear a little harsh on Zucker. I do think he isn’t all that bad, but I do think he belongs in the West and not the East – just like Perron.
The Other Rick
From my “One” reliable source Zucker hasn’t been healthy since the start of the year and the Pen’s decided
to sit him. Again as I mentioned in my comments everything is not based on scoring. The Pens have
several players who can step up and have a big night. When I referred to Malkin I was talking about last
season and in my opinion Malkin except for his 1st game back hasn’t looked all that good. I’m not down on
Malkin, I know it will take him more than 3 or 4 games to knock the rust off but I’m looking for him to be
more responsible at both ends of the ice. Also, just for the record Malkin had zero to do with either of
Zuckers goal except for winning a face-off. Zucker was relentless on his 1st goal and he got lucky when
Kappy’s shot went off this stick but it pays to go to the net.
Again, I know you like to throw numbers around to validate your argument – please don’t use those with me
they mean nothing. The most important thing is chemistry and having a team that plays together. The Pen’s
have that and plenty of skill. Every player on the roster can’t score 30 goals. The Pen’s have more forwards
contributing offensively than they’ve had for a number of years so obviously individually total stats numbers
naturally decline – its about winning and team performance always out weighs individual performance.
Also, if you read my comments earlier I said I’m all for trading anyone on the team if it makes us better. I’m
also for giving a player & coach their due when deserved.
Hey Mike,
If by saying “everything is not based on scoring” you mean a team needs plow horses as well as thoroughbreds, I agree. Not everybody will be a 20 goal scorer or even in double digits, I agree 100%. A team needs players willing to roll-up their sleeves and get dirty. If you mean that in general terms no, I disagree, Goals or the number of Goals does matter.Goals determine who Wins and who Loses. Justice is a double edge sword, it has to cut both ways. If you deploy Zucker in a top 6 role, he had better produce Goals. If you play in a bottom 6 role, you don’t pay him the $6.25 million he will get this season.
Furthermore, as you yourself noted, you don’t play top 6 players in bottom 6 roles just because you have them on your roster (when discussing Simon). For me, I see Zucker more of middle 6. He really doesn’t have the offensive creativity of an elite forward as evidence by that playoff Goal that Gaudreau scored last year, to which I have often referred.He took himself right out of the play with mindlessly crashing the net instead of putting himself into a position for a 1-time shot. (No wonder Crosby doesn’t want to play with him, or that he doesn’t play well with Malkin – who doesn’t moan about line mates.). However, he does have a lot of desire and drive, evidenced by that PPG he scored the other night. As I noted in my summary of the game, he reminded me of ole number 72 sticking his nose in there and jamming away.
But in the end Crosby doesn’t want him and Malkin doesn’t really mesh with him, Zohorna-Malkin-Carter looked far-and-away better than Zucker-Malkin-Kapanen. In fact, Zohorna-Malkin-Carter was THE best line during their brief stint together, and breaking them up just because Zucker came back is just 1 more tangible piece of evidence of why Sullivan will not win another Cup unless he gets a Crosby-Malkin double generational talent in their combo prime.
I know you don’t care about statistics and neither does Sullivan, or the Pens organization, that is obvious to anyone with the ability to reason. Sullivan and the Penguins as whole would rather poke and hope that their favorites will somehow pull one off, rather than look at things objectively and put themselves in the best probability of victory.
I extend this condemnation to the Pens stat dept as well, if they truly proselytize Simon as a CORSI beast. A true scientist would be controlling for with-or-without stats as well as situational stats and realize that without Crosby and the game on the line (within 1 G) Simon is at best average as a team contributor and he himself can’t score. However, Sullivan constantly tries to squeeze that square peg into a round hole because he likes him and management lets him do it.
Zucker has way more talent than Simon but the numbers are telling the truth, Zucker is not that important to this team. The team doesn’t need to spend $6.25 million on a 30 year old guy who isn’t going to score Goals in the upper 20 range and who as you suggest has a potential nagging injury. There is not a whole lot of top end talent in the Pens farm system but they are stocked with sufficient bottom 6 young guys making way less, contributing just as much. Zucker is a Captain Dunsel, a non-essential spare part that is getting way to much for far too little contribution.
If the Pens, like you continue to let sentimentality cloud your judgment and justify it by saying that you don’t care about the stats then this team is doomed to repeat history and at best get crushed in the 1st round, leaving us to have this same conversation next year – “Groundhog Day”, well not really in “Groundhog Day”, Bill Murray worked the repeat to improve outcome, our Pens aren’t.
I do give credit to Zucker when he deserves it. He deserved it on that first Goal. However, I look at him clinically, he is not helping the Pens nor are the Pens helping him. The best thing the Pens could do for both themselves and for Zucker is to trade him back out West.
The Other Rick
You need to read the article on Zucker that appeared today on DK Sports “Danny Shirley” Since
your a numbers guy Zucker should be one of your Favorites!! “Just saying”.
Regarding scoring it doesn’t matter if your setting records scoring goals if your giving up more
then you score. Theirs tons of variables that go into scoring and Defense is one of those. That’s
another reason why numbers lie. I’m convinced that Zucker will score his share of goals as the
season progresses but he also brings a dimension to the Pen’s they sorely need. He’s a disruptive
player w/speed and he’s really the only forward that consistently goes to the net.
I’m not comparing Zucker to Hornquist “he’s one of a kind” but he has 7goals and 11 assist in 37 games
while Zucker has 6goals and 7assist in 31 games. Horny is 35 while Zucker is 30 – Horny makes 5.3 mil
per year while Zucker will make 5.5mil this year and 5.5mil in 2022-23. I think you would have Horny in
your Top 6? Again I’m really not comparing the two of them but a players value isn’t only scoring
goals but helping his teammates score goals.
When you look at some of the tops teams currently – Rangers, Canes, Knights, Avalanche they have
players in their top 6 that aren’t tearing it up. Mark Stone only has 7 goals after 36games. He’s 29yrs
old and has a salary of 9.5mil for the next 6 years. Again I’m not comparing the two players. Just
trying to help you see that intangibles play a huge part in winning. Things that don’t show up in the
box score. Horny is one of those type players – he causes havoc in front of the net that often times
leads to a teammates goal – “not in the stat line”.
I’ve made this statement before that when you look to trade a player you have to be able to supplement
what that particular player contributed to the team. When you trade Zucker you now have no one
on this team that gives you what he does – he’s exactly what the Pen’s need if he can get it going.
Excuse spelling & grammar mistakes – I’m dictating while driving so I’m hoping this made sense!! LOL
Hey Mike,
I am a numbers’ guy and that is why I know Zucker doesn’t belong in Pgh. Zucker’s 5-on-5 stats among the 35 players with over 200 minutes over the last 3 seasons are;
O-Zone Starts/60 – 11.93, 2.23 higher than the Avg No of (9.70) starts for a Penguin player (Ranked: 9/35)
D-Zone Starts/60 – 4.7, 3.70 lower than the Avg (8.40), 2nd lowest D-zone starts on the team.
Team Goals For/60 – 2.43, 1.90 lower than the Avg (2.62), Ranked 19th out of 35, despite having more 0-Zone starts than just a fraction shy of 75% of the team his TGF are in the lower half.
Team Goals Against/60 – 2.69, 0.45 higher than the Avg (2.24), despite having the 2nd lowest D-Zone starts Zucker has the 4th worst TGA/60. So, not only does the team fail to score with Zucker on the ice despite some of the best quality starts of a shift, he turns the teams fortunes around so that opponents can score Goals. With numbers like this, it isn’t much of a surprise to see that Zucker has the 7th worst (again out of 35) Goal differential on the team, 47.47% vs the Avg of 53.73
His CORSI is almost as high as Mialkin’s (52.43 to Malkin’s 52.45 good for 12th and 11th out of 35 respectively), but nothing tangible (GF comes from his time on ice)
Zucker’s HDCF/60 – 9.35, 10th worst (out of 35)
HDCA/60 – 10.90 – 10th worst
Team SH% When Zucker is on the ice 7.62% tied for 13th worst
Team Sv% When Zucker is on the ice 90.48 4th worst on the team
I know how to read Stats, peoples actual lives not game crap depended up on me reading stats. I don’t need some Talking Head, Wizard of Oz trying to redirect my attention from the man behind the curtain.
For any intangibles Zucker may bring, they never translate into anything tangible. Zucker doesn’t rise up even to the avg player with 200 minutes the Penguins have dressed over the last 3 seasons. I am not saying Zucker is a bad player, Sullivan is keeping him here and putting him in a position for failure. He doesn’t belong in Pgh, he belongs out West like Perron.
Pretty much anyone could have done better with the opportunities Zucker was given. With some of the most favorable Ice Time of anyone in Black and Gold, he has done diddle-squat with the opportunity. With JR back in the league, there is an opportunity to fix a mistake. If the team doesn’t take their blinders off and start making objective decisions we will be having this same conversation next season, like we did the season before.
Hello Mike.
It looks like my “okay Zucker” worked. He got two goals!!! FYI: the Buker PenguinPoop Curse works in reverse, too. As in any team or player I criticize immediately heats up…lol
On a serious note I, too, like the way Zucker plays. I love his spunk, and he’s reputed to be very popular with his ‘mates. But there are just so many stretches when he doesn’t show up on the score sheet (two assists in his past 12 games prior to the Vegas game). That just can’t be…not for what we’re paying him.
I also heard that he’d been playing through a nagging injury. Hopefully that’s in the past and his luck will change. Also hope he eventually winds up skating with Rodrigues and Kapanen. They made a really nice third line.
Rick
Rick
Keep putting bad JU JU on Pen’s players – LOL
Good read on Zucker “DK Sports”. I think his overall numbers will surprise you and maybe he’s not
part of the problem but the solution. I also think if you look at some of the numbers around the
league you’ll be shocked at some stat lines. Mark Stone has 7 goals after 36 games. While playing
over 18min a game and with their #1 PP unit – he’s making 9.5mil for the next 6 years. I’m not
disputing he’s a really good player I’m just making an analogy and I would take Stone on my team
in a NY minute. Hornquist is 35 with a cap hit of 5.3mil and after 37 games has 7 goals and 18pts
while also getting plenty of ice time on the PP.
Zuckers cap hit is for 5.5 for this year and in 2022-23. Also, I’m not against trading him but how
many of our Forwards go to the net? Plus take the body? Who do they replace him with? We
have maybe and I say maybe one player who can step in right now and that’s “Big Z” but other
then a potential scorer he’s not ready. He doesn’t hit and he won’t do the dirty work in front of
the net. On most teams this isn’t a big deal but with the Pen’s it’s a priority. GO PENS
Uh…not so fast. Did you you the Pens just returned Zucker to IR? Sheesh!
Someone on one of the other sites mentioned that Zucker has 21 goals and 43 points in 84 career games with the Pens…which is pretty much a total for a full season. Numbers that certainly aren’t out of line for who he is. Although those numbers are skewed somewhat by a fast start his first season here (six goals, 12 points in 15 games). Since then….15 goals and 31 points in 69 games. Not quite what you’d hope for.
Although it’s a moot point for now with him back on IR, sure wish Sullivan wouldn’t put him with Malkin. They really don’t work. Although a good coach, Sullivan can be strangely obtuse about things like that at times. Ditto his recent insistence on playing Rodrigues in his natural spot on right wing, where he’s far less productive than at center or left wing.
Rick
Hey Other Rick,
Interesting piece…well done as always. Glad Snowmageddon hit so you had time to write … 🙂
Yeah, maybe a bit of the luster came off our Pens, although I again maintain that missing Aston-Reese, Heinen, McGinn and Rust (and…okay…Zucker) had a crippling effect on our forecheck. Which enabled other teams to carry the play to us and pressure our defense down low. When that occurs it ain’t a pretty sight.
It’s really important for this team to take the initiative and carry the play to the opposition to keep the heat off our ‘d.’ Something we’ve generally done pretty well.
Still would like to add a stout defenseman on the right side, but unless we shed $$$ big time that ain’t gonna happen.
While we’re cataloging weaknesses, other teams have ’em, too. The Rangers are top-heavy up front but lack depth. For goodness sake, black-and-gold reject Greg McKegg has played 19 games for them. Ditto the Caps, who lack scoring depth.
The only teams that look pretty airtight to me are Tampa Bay and Florida. But even though Sergei Bobrovsky’s having a pretty good season for the Panthers, his playoff history is checkered. So you really never know.
Rick