Anyone who’s read PenguinPoop over the years knows the Penguins’ size and toughness…or lack of…has been an ongoing concern of mine.
After watching our guys do battle with the ultra-heavy Wild in a game that featured a healthy dose of physical play last Thursday night, I began wondering anew if we have the requisite size and strength to not only survive a run to the Cup but thrive.
I worry about injuries. I worry about pushback. I worry about what happens to us when we absorb punishment and aren’t handed a spate of power plays to redress the balance.
As a refresher, although we certainly didn’t shy away from physical stuff, the Wild banged us around pretty good. Jason Zucker was taken out early. Brian Dumoulin went head-first into the boards and newcomer Rickard Rakell was shaken up after being tripped by Frederick Gaudreau.
I imagine some extra ice packs were passed around the dressing room afterward.
Unless you count Brian Boyle, we don’t really have a physical deterrent and likely never will so long as Mike Sullivan’s coach. That’s not to say we’re timid by any stretch. We’re eighth in the league in hits. We stick our collective noses in and compete for loose pucks. Although we don’t always win those battles, as a general rule it isn’t for a lack of try or grit.
In fact, I think our big three of Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin and Kris Letang fairly represent the team’s physical capability. They do whatever it takes, even if it means getting their fingernails dirty.
Hockey tough.
However, the playoffs are as much a war of attrition as they are a triumph of supreme talent and ability. Size matters. Since the Pens last hoisted Lord Stanley’s chalice in 2017 with a speedy, undersized bunch, the Cup winners have all blended skill with brawn.
Eleven of the 20 players who skated for the champion Lightning last spring tipped the scales at 200 pounds or better. In 2019, 15 of 21 Blues’ skaters weighed in at 200 pounds or heavier. The season before that, 14 of 23 Capitals topped the 200-pound mark.
In addition, heavy teams like the Islanders and last season’s Canadiens went deep into the postseason. In 2020, the 24th-seeded Habs knocked us out in the qualifying round by basically shoving our Smurfish forwards to the perimeter and denying them access to the prime scoring areas.
I still recall us employing the “horseshoe” offense. We’d dump the puck into the Canadiens’ zone along the boards and they’d dump it right back out again along the far wall.
For the record, that black-and-gold squad listed only three 200-pounders among their forwards…Crosby, Zach Aston-Reese and an over-the-hill Patrick Marleau.
Since that ill-fated series, the Pens have made some strides in adding functional size…especially since Ron Hextall took over as general manager. GMRH’s added the likes of Jeff Carter (6’3” 219) and Boyle (6’6” 245). The latter has skated recently on super-sized (and effective) fourth lines along with fellow behemoths Radim Zohorna (6’6” 220) and Anthony Angello (6’5” 210).
Malkin and Brian Dumoulin aren’t small men. Neither is Rakell (a solid 6’1” 195) or Kasperi Kapanen for that matter.
Are they enough? Especially when you consider that Angello, Zohorna and perhaps even Boyle may not see the ice when everyone’s healthy. To be replaced in all likelihood by smaller players in the classic Sullivan mold (see above reference to Smurfs).
As the old saying goes, “Quick guys get tired; big guys don’t shrink.” In the physical cauldron not to mention endurance test that is the Stanley Cup playoffs, only the strong survive.
To that end, I wish we had at least one defenseman with a penchant for clearing the front of the net and depositing opposing forwards on their keisters. I love Mark Friedman’s feistiness and willingness, but he’s only 5’11” 185. Trade deadline pickup Nathan Beaulieu may be that guy if he ever gets healthy, but Hextall insists he’s strictly a depth piece. Unless we’re struck with a Biblical plague of injuries on the blue line, it’s hard to imagine Sullivan playing the newcomer over any of the incumbents.
I also wish we had a hard-checking forward to crash and bang and make opposing d-men a little nervous. And maybe do a little enforcing should the need arise. Alas, there’s no one who remotely fits that description in the organization.
Nicolas Deslauriers would’ve been a welcome add. Old friend Bill Guerin was savvy enough to snap him up for the Wild.
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Good luck making this assertion over at another Penguins blog that is mentioned here often. I am a refugee from that site. It is basically a bunch of the same hyper sensitive guys lording over the comment boards. They shut down any dissent at all and pretty much treat the forum as if it is their own little draft day sit room where they incessantly discuss moves and trades and salary cap and advanced stats like they are some sort of wannabe GM. But they do not seem to understand hockey at all. At least not like someone who has played the game. They think they are experts whose takes are read by the Pens front office, or should be. I swear, they have said this. It was just beyond me the ignorant arrogance.
When I make my assertions that the Pens have been outmuscled for the last few years and I give proof, I was shouted down, ridiculed and pretty much teamed up on. It is an echo chamber over there and it is pathetic. The snarky smarmy guys on there are not tolerant at all of any takes outside the narrative. Nick, a New Yorker, is the worst. He is a know it all who cannot ever admit he is wrong and seems to sit in waiting all day for someone to post a take he doesn't like or put out a stat that is wrong. This kind of cancel/ censorship is the M.O. for many over there. It is a toxic environment but not surprising based on the median age of the blog posters. I was starting to get some support in my argument so of course I went on the moderator's watchlist where every comment I posted was reviewed before posting. They would withhold posts that did not violate the community Standards...but the posts DID blow up their takes.
So it is with great relief that I find someone who is willing to write about the lack of toughness with this team. Yes, it is not about size, or having fighters etc. It is about being tough enough to do the things you have to do in the playoffs. Sidney and Co are amazing skaters and skilled players but we all know the ice becomes very small in the playoffs and skill and finesse become rare, replaced with grit, tenacity and traffic. Lots of traffic. They are struggling to get in position, stay in position, and are already ducking hits. This is a clear sign for a coach that his team is too light. In the last 8 games watch as the play around the net is the greatest indicator. They take long protracted routes to the front of the net. They go around the defender to the side the defense gives them. They are not setting effective screens because they cannot hold position. And the Marchand debacle laid wide open just how unwilling these guys are to do what is needed. Everyone at the other blog thinks that the Pens did the right thing by not going after Marchand and made up a million excuses. One excuse was no one saw the punch. Well, everyone saw the slash to the face that should have sent someone off the bench if there was no one on the ice who will do it. I do not care if the ref had Marchand. He would have released him to take the beating. Watch the linesman that has Marchand in that video, he is almost looking for the response and seems surprised it doesn't come. Now we face them twice in a row with a home and home with a 4 day break between. I have said that the Pens HAVE to make a statement since they may play the Bruins, but mainly because there are now glaring questions. My friends at the other site assert every Pens player has forgotten it and no one will go after Marchand, and that the hockey world has forgotten also. This is how I know they never played the game. Hockey players never forget and worse, never like to have their toughness questioned. I am waiting for those two games to decide for sure if these guys are for real or not. If they send out Boyle to get in some sort of weak answer the bell thing then there is no hope. They need to run the Bruins goalie, hit Pastrnak all night, and have a 200 PIM game, just to show they can. Anything less and this will be a first round out for sure as the team they play will expose this weakness.
But hey, what do I know? I only played the game since I was 6 years old and I am too old for the new "soccer" style hockey a growing number of young Pens fans seem to want.
Welcome to Penguin Poop Long Pants Hockey Guy,
Every so often I will comment on another site as well, I know exactly what you are talking about.
And yes, most of us here are tired of the perimeter hockey going on right now.
Hey Rick
If I may add my 2 cents .... It is not about how many players weigh 200 pounds that is the issue...That is to simplistic to use that as the only base line measurement. What about age ? What about talent ? What about toughness? What about speed ?
Case in point, Letang and Crosby are basically the same size and for the past 3 years in the play offs they were neutralized by larger, faster, younger and more physical players.( Disregard the points they get on the power play),I am talking 5 on 5 hockey. Remember what the Islanders GM said last year after we got eliminated again in the first round. By pressuring Crosby, getting in his face, we knew he would NOT SHOOT THE PUCK but pass it !!
Jake G. was non existent in that series because they Islanders kept checking him into the ice.
He did not score AS HE DID IN THE REGULAR SEASON and thus we did not win !!!
With regards to New York Rangers or even Carolina their first advantage is they are younger players than the aging Pen's. That is a key factor. I remember Wayne Gretzky saying when they Oilers first beat the 4 time Cup Champions Islanders, he said one of the reasons they won was that they were younger than the Islanders and they recovered quicker. The Rangers when fully healthy, their average age of their team is 26.3 years old and the Pen's is 29.7.
Most of our best players are 32 years of age or older and most of our younger players are NOT high draft picks with high skill levels. That is another big difference Rick.
Secondly with New York Rangers they have several large players....Chris Kreider 6'3", 218#, Ryan Reeves 6'3',225 #,Mika ZIBANEJAB,6'2",210# and others. Our problem is 4 of our Dmen weigh 178 to 190#. So when Reeves hits a 180# D man, he feels it.
This team is not built for play off physical hockey. If that was the case i only refer back to the past 3 years.
I really want to be proven wrong Rick.....
Cheers
Jim
Jake dove all day in that series against the Isles. I get under Pens fans skin when I bring this up but it is very clear. The Refs even warned the bench about all the diving. The Pens were just beaten up in that series period. Yes the GT was bad but I wonder how much that would have made the difference in a series that did not go 7 games. Plus, all of a sudden this guy has league best numbers?
The stats may not show it, maybe there is no real stat for this, but the eye test surely shows these guys just are not tough enough for playoff hockey and their rep as divers is causing the refs to swallow their whistles. So gotta get a new gameplan or new personnel because we do not have the same surprise style of play from '16 and '17 that others have copied and figured out.
Hey Rick,
We got our answer last night. The game was not even close. We scored 2 meaningless goals in the last 2 minutes to make it 6 to 4.The Avs took over in the second period and the game was never in question. All the while playing with out their top 2 forwards Kadri and Landeskog and # 3 Dman Sam Girard .
Jim,
Hey Jim,
100% agree. Unfortunately, there are those out there (Dan Kingerski) who are still deluding themselves and insisting that this team is just a tweak away from being a real contender.
Hey Rick, you mention that the Pens are 8th in the league in Hits. Did you you look at who our Pens top hitters are? ZAR still has the most hits of all Pens, hitters 2 - 4 are Letang, Ruhwedel, and Pettersson - 3 D -men. Now ask yourself, "why are D - men hitting players? (and remember the only time you are legally allowed to hit a player and not draw a penalty but get credit for a hit is when you are hitting a player with the puck.)
Are they forechecking? Are our D - men so far up in the play that they are fore-checking? That could explain the number of odd man breaks we give up - not a good thing.
Or our D men are chasing the puck around in their own end, unable to get it out. Again not a good thing.
So either we are stipid enough to not allow forwards like Crosby, Malkin, Guentzel, and Rust to do their jobs, or we are a poor puck possession team - despite our coach's assurance that we do posses the puck. Regardless something is not right.
On the plus side, I see that GMRH signed Lukáš Švejkovský to an ELC. The second coming of Crosby he is not, but this team needs to find new blood and it takes loads of prospects to sort through if you want to find a couple of gems.
Not going to say they can't lose tomorrow night against NYR but........
Rick
My simple answer.....................N000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
I love Boyle, Carter, etc.....etc........but our size are guys that are a few years away
from retirement. I do agree with The Other Rick that you can be tough at 5'10, 5'11
but the impact on your hits doesn't compare to getting hit by a player 6'3 & 240lbs.
Also Rick,
I don't have time to write a whole piece on this, but I saw that Mike Bossy is in palliative care right now. My heartfelt prayers to all his loved ones. I used to love watching him play. To me the perfect line was Gillies - Trottier - Bossy.
Agree Coach. A Classy Guy...
Mike Bossy was the purest Goal scorer I have ever had the pleasure to watch.
50 Goals in 10 seasons I believe.
Best wishes and our condolences to his family.
Jim
Hey Rick,
I hear you.
However, that 2017 team was not bereft of size;
Ian Cole 6'1", 225, Olli Maatta 6'2", 210, Oskar Sundqvist 6'3", 209, Carter Rowney 6'1", 208, Brian Dumoulin 6'4", 207, Ron Hainsey 6'3", 205, Matt Cullen, 6'1" 202, Phil Kessel 6'0" 202, Letang 6'0", 201, Crosby 5'11", 200.
(Sestito was still on the team that year but as we all know Sully had a serious allergy to that man)
Granted not all of those 200lb bodies were physical (Kessell for one), In fact, size doesn't always equate with toughness.
Conversely, there is a huge difference when size and toughness meet. Yes, our Penguins do dish out hits at a high rate and I have seen them deliver some really solid hits, but I have also seen them bounce off their targets quite often and or hit opponents with little affect. Furthermore, delivering hits is more of a function of lack of puck possession, and considering the balance between defensive zone starts and defensive zone face-offs of many of our players, last time I looked, I don't discount the hit totals being more of a question of puck possession.
There is also a difference of being hockey tough and simply being a punching bag. If our Penguins were really hockey tough they would drive the net far more often and station a player in front of the Goalie, initiating contact with opponents in the paint in the attacking zone and knocking opponents on their wallets in the D-zone.
As a team, I don't see our boys going to the dirty areas often so I don't see them as hockey tough.